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Kenya's ultimate solution
Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 46
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this is one good thread in a looong time,my two cents... tycho wrote:The sum of all our problems is ignorance. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge of how to use time to meet our needs, for as Marx pointed out, the economic system is the base, the rest; superstructure.......
And we can do this quickly by supporting and using sheng as the official language of technology, and constructing a new economic system centered on cyberspace. way back in school,some guyz would mold their own programming language but would never get far.Now for us to have our own set of cyber space that is not 'westernized' we need to come up with assembly languages,codes,OS....using sheng!!if guyz landed on the moon(if it was neva a stage managed photo session)we can do it. However,we need to use the structures that are already in place,my suggestion is going kiswahili way instead of sheng.eg UBUNTU is an african open source OS,while we graduate thousands comp.sci guyz n boost of several prof n masters guyz why dont we come up with a swahili codes and assembly language?then we will start thinking of a cyberspace that is not 'westernized'! ...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:@jasonhill,
I agree that the solutions to our problems lie in our minds and hearts, and that we need to trust each other, and more so, love one another. Now, that I agree with. Another problem we have is resistance to change and worse is some people in power going out of their way to enforce the status quo. We all know what we need to do to make this country better, even worse is we're watching our neigbours around overtake us. Surely how could we just watch Rwanda catching up and overtaking us in IT and we were centuries ahead of them? We take 100bob and vote in an MP we won't see in four and a half years. People on trial for crimes against humanity are busy campaigning to lead us. Wtf?!!! The drought that we all know will come always gets us off guard, how could Kibaki fail so miserably? I tell you my friend, our problem is not ignorance, it's greed ask any Tanzanian.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@2012,
And why would one be greedy? Is it not because the person doesn't know his/her true needs? And again, isn't greed about not knowing how to relate with others?
I think greed is a symptom of ignorance.
@MCHUNA,
I like the idea of using Kiswahili, it would make a great start. But at the same time I think Kiswahili still has many restrictions when it comes to creating new words, and is always looking up to English for growth.
But sheng has so much dexterity and energy!
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/1/2008 Posts: 104 Location: Nairobi
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tycho.....were we to lay aside all arguments to the contrary and critically analyze your proposal there would be still be one very big challenge facing us i.e. the very nature of sheng itself. How would you propose we overcome the following; 1. The aim of using sheng is seldom the exchange of information. More often, it serves social purposes: to identify members of a group, to change the level of discourse in the direction of informality, to oppose established authority- the minute sheng becomes recognized as an official language, users will change to a sub-sheng in rebellion to the status-quo. 2. it's vocabulary is ephemeral, bursting into existence and falling out of use at a much more rapid rate than items of the general vocabulary. The changes occur with each generational gap, economic standing and geographical location. - how do we keep updated and teach such a transient language? Généralement, les gens qui savant peu parlent becoup, et les gens qui savant beaucoup parlent peu.
- Rousseau.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@savant,
Assuming that indeed sheng is a language of rebellion,validating it would then mean validating the rebel and his world view. This would clearly imply a cessation of rebellion.
As for the stability of sheng; it is worth noting that a language will tend to be more stable in proportion to its use in economic interaction and trade.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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I get so irritated and frustrated when those new young employees attempt to transact official business in sheng. My question is, do I learn the language or do I insist that these kids learn how to communicate officially in english since I am so old school?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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anyone who attempts formalizing sheng is wasting his time...you cannot formalize such a dynamic language! by the time you write a dictionary esplaining what Chapaa means! people would already have come up with other funny words extracted from any language in kenya or perhaps some reversal of a formal term...unless you do a dictionary for eastlands, one for westi, one for Naks, one for Kisumu - you are WASTING YOUR TIME! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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@Masukama, i am with you on that. There is no way sheng can be a mainstream language. If you go to Nairobi's Dandora estate, the sheng being spoken there is so different even from the one being spoken a stone throw away in Buruburu. Walk a few yards and enter Ofafa Jericho, their Sheng is not similar to Dandora's and Buru's! What's more, what you learnt a few months as the Sheng in any of these estates has since changed and you have to learn it afresh. It is therefore a futile tool for economic development.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
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which problems are we going to solve be emulating China?? masukuma wrote:I think we should copy paste what China is doing! Economically, China is following the rest of the world in instituting market based economy. The admission of China into world trade organization is a proof. besides, the Confucian culture that insisted on equality, and largely contributed to communism, is dying out. socially, China has the worst human rights record because of a government that is afraid of its people.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
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tycho wrote:@2012,
I like the idea of using Kiswahili, it would make a great start. But at the same time I think Kiswahili still has many restrictions when it comes to creating new words, and is always looking up to English for growth.
But sheng has so much dexterity and energy!
the essence of having a uniform language is to communicate...and effective communication must have a common understandable language. what is the point of having a dynamic language, where future children cannot even understand their past because new words will have been formed?? the chinese, a population of almost 1.5 billion people have been unable to teach the rest of the world their language. they have been forced to learn english, to fit in with globalization. I doubt that making sheng a national language in this era of globalization will result in any benefits in our country. what have we done with swahili??? after years of being taught kiswahili in class, we still speak it so poorly. And yes, sheng is not to blame for poor swahili.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/26/2008 Posts: 319
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I Partly agree regarding ignorance, but then one needs to remember that even the many of us who are exposed and knowledgeable both in terms of 'power to read' and also exposure to general knowledge have failed to move this country forward.
Look at the problem right down at the family level. Many of us have househelps and the myriad of problems with these pple is beyond belief. Have we thought about why/how come it is common for mzungus to have one nanny bring up their children and integrate a lot more into the family than among us indigenous pples? It leads me to believe that we do not love each other enough, we are simply not patriotic pple. We care too much about self to benefit as a nation from the synergy born of unity.
No matter how hard we work, this kind of self centredness will result in too skewed a distribution of resources and this will make our country lag behind. We need a unifying factor. In China, they had Mao, In Singapore and Malaysia it has been about figures such as these that brought pple togetehr. In Japan, they have a belief system that works well for them. The birth of european and american powerhouses was born of a common faith based system which united them. What have we that will bring us together?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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who ever thinks sheng is our answer listen to tuju! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiePiD8iiQ8
i like the fellow but sheng is just wrong! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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This text language is denying many young people opportunitiesImagine receiving this email from a potential employee: I avbnlukin 4 u 4 sum tym. I avbnwndrn y u din’trply to ma mails whch I sent but its ok. Thx and av nice day
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@masukuma, @kenmac,and all the sheng opposers;
I think we need to take another look at the reasons for advocating for the use of sheng as a language of technology.
1. It takes an average person more than 16 years to learn English well enough to write a decent short story, and considering the fact that there are many Kenyans who have not gone past std.8,we should not place on ourselves an adult education program that will lead to great losses of time and funds.For example, if we took an 18 year old into an adult education program we'd have to wait till he is 34 before he can use English productively...when will he retire? How much will the government have spent on him?
2. Given that we (Kenyans) can't add words to the English dictionary, it follows that our use of the language is limited to the context of emulating,imitating and generally, waiting for native English speakers to create and name for us. But technology entails naming and creating, and as many have already noted, sheng offers us the licence to create and to name.
3. The usage of sheng as a language of technology doesn't preclude the usage of English and Kiswahili.
Finally about the objections raised regarding the great dynamism of sheng: Sheng is just another human creation and it can be brought under control quite easily through trade,the setting of linguistic standards much like English and Kiswahili are controlled.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2011 Posts: 322 Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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tycho wrote:@masukuma, @kenmac,and all the sheng opposers;
I think we need to take another look at the reasons for advocating for the use of sheng as a language of technology.
1. It takes an average person more than 16 years to learn English well enough to write a decent short story, and considering the fact that there are many Kenyans who have not gone past std.8,we should not place on ourselves an adult education program that will lead to great losses of time and funds.For example, if we took an 18 year old into an adult education program we'd have to wait till he is 34 before he can use English productively...when will he retire? How much will the government have spent on him?
2. Given that we (Kenyans) can't add words to the English dictionary, it follows that our use of the language is limited to the context of emulating,imitating and generally, waiting for native English speakers to create and name for us. But technology entails naming and creating, and as many have already noted, sheng offers us the licence to create and to name.
3. The usage of sheng as a language of technology doesn't preclude the usage of English and Kiswahili.
Finally about the objections raised regarding the great dynamism of sheng: Sheng is just another human creation and it can be brought under control quite easily through trade,the setting of linguistic standards much like English and Kiswahili are controlled. Are you volunteering to write the first complete, unabridged Sheng dictionary and self-publish and print it? I suppose that would be a starting point for your experiment, and it shouldn't be that difficult for you to do, since you've done a fair amount of typing here already. I feel that this is step number one. We will be waiting with baited breath for it, so that we can review it amongst the Kenyan academia, after which you can seek the support of a few professors that would be willing to integrate it into their curriculum. Until you can put a functional copy into our hands, and into the hands of some linguistics professionals that can help get us some clarity on this, we remain largely at a loss for logical reasoning around what exactly it is that you are attempting to do above and beyond causing a bit more confusion among the youth. Best, Hill
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/1/2008 Posts: 104 Location: Nairobi
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@jasonhill speaking of clarity, just what does baited breath look like?  Généralement, les gens qui savant peu parlent becoup, et les gens qui savant beaucoup parlent peu.
- Rousseau.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2011 Posts: 322 Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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savant wrote:@jasonhill speaking of clarity, just what does baited breath look like? Old English colloquialism for "bated breath" which is a shortened version of "Abated breath", as in "held, or awaiting". Good catch Savant Best, Hill
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@jasonhill,
I do not think you are presenting a fair urgument.
It doesn't follow that if I am advocating for sheng then I should place a sheng dictionary in your hands, plus with the recomendation of some authorities - linguists.
But then I must try to understand you. I suppose you are in Cleveland, and most likely living the American dream. Here in Kibera we are wondering how we are going to make ourselves economically viable, and proposals to learn English are more confusing than you can imagine.
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