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is it worth investing on rental flats?
Sakangu
#41 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 10:52:39 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/1/2010
Posts: 36
Location: Nairobi
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Nevertheless, I found a way of participating in the best of both worlds and from the bottom of both markets by buying into a listed property company called Pearl Properties smile www.pearlproperties.co.zw the company has portfolio to reckon from CBD Buildings, Office Parks, Industrial Warehouses, Malls and un-developed land Laughing out loudly pays a good dividend too



Seems you are investing in a company that is in real estate, then what are you fighting about, its only that you are not in real estate directly.d'oh!
Cde Monomotapa
#42 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 11:09:20 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Sakangu wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Nevertheless, I found a way of participating in the best of both worlds and from the bottom of both markets by buying into a listed property company called Pearl Properties smile www.pearlproperties.co.zw the company has portfolio to reckon from CBD Buildings, Office Parks, Industrial Warehouses, Malls and un-developed land Laughing out loudly pays a good dividend too



Seems you are investing in a company that is in real estate, then what are you fighting about, its only that you are not in real estate directly.d'oh!

Now that sort of fellow is refferd to as an intelligent investor. Might I add that the mortgage sector is yet to fully emerge owing to the unwinding liquidity squeeze? LoL! We all know how availability of and access to affordable credit has boosted Kenya's economy post-2002 Laughing out loudly
sanity
#43 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:18:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 407
Location: Nairobi,Kenya
@Pablo,I agree with you.life is a teacher.If I had 10m right now,i would build a flat for rental even for the 100k a month.then I would lnvest elsewhere.that way i would be assured of an income of 100k forever.
Hope is not a strategy
Genghis Khan
#44 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:45:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
Genghis Khan wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Gordon Gekko wrote:
african coloner wrote:
why invest 10m for 100k a month, surely there must be other ways you can earn that with less capital


That is a 12% return. (ksh 100K * 12)/ksh 10M. Which investment can beat that for such a passive and low risk investment?

Less how much in rates & taxes(30%)? We are talking strictly income without capital gains/losses upon sale in both asset classes.

Why would you pay 30%?

WWGKD?

1. I would build the damn thing for 10m in a company name. The assumption here is that i had 10m in cash. I wouldn't get a bank loan @ 14%plus for such a project.

2. I would sell my car for 1.5m. I would then buy a company car for a similar amount and let the "employees/tenants" work to make the repayments. I would also get a post paid fuel card, and charge the company for any service, insurance etc.

3. If this is not yet 100k, I would find yet another way of expensing the income before KRA gets to it.

4. Every cent of the company money I spend, I invest (from my other income). It can be in the same company as "new capital from shareholders" or just in my personal CDS / savings account doesn't really matter as long as I DON'T spend it as well.

You can pay as low a tax as you are smart, just be careful to do it LEGALLY, consult a lawyer if u have to. KRA guys are not kind to smart people.

The Principal here is to spend and invest before you are taxed.

Companies pay taxes on profits (Income less expense), natural persons pay taxes on Gross Income. All tax systems are flawed this way.

The taxman will audit you but all you have to do is justify the expenses.

You can even buy airtime before paying taxes if u are smart enough.

Even booze for "clients"...

The only substantial amount of money i make in my own name is my salo which is taxed at sourceSad
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
Cde Monomotapa
#45 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 6:56:02 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
So much effort & extra professional costs.
african coloner
#46 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:59:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 446
Location: london
i thouht you dont pay any tax on rental flats?
For Sport
#47 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:33:59 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
african coloner wrote:
i thouht you dont pay any tax on rental flats?


whaaaat?
Cde Monomotapa
#48 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:42:48 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
For Sport wrote:
african coloner wrote:
i thouht you dont pay any tax on rental flats?


whaaaat?

african coloner
#49 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:08:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 446
Location: london
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
[quote=For Sport][quote=african coloner]i thouht you dont pay any tax on rental flats?


whaaaat?[/quot


how many people with rental flats pay tax?
Cde Monomotapa
#50 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:39:22 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
african coloner wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
[quote=For Sport][quote=african coloner]i thouht you dont pay any tax on rental flats?


whaaaat?[/quot


how many people with rental flats pay tax?

Good question smile
For Sport
#51 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:49:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
african coloner wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
[quote=For Sport][quote=african coloner]i thouht you dont pay any tax on rental flats?


whaaaat?[/quot


how many people with rental flats pay tax?

Good question smile


And when the tax man comes calling for back taxes?
Lolest!
#52 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 10:17:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Most people dont pay tax on rental income but it is liable to taxation. This is one of the many places where kra loses lots of revenue...btw, are capital gains on shares taxable?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
For Sport
#53 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 10:21:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
Lolest! wrote:
Most people dont pay tax on rental income but it is liable to taxation. This is one of the many places where kra loses lots of revenue...btw, are capital gains on shares taxable?


No capital gains tax.
Ndaragwa
#54 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:36:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 108
This article, entitled "How to maximise rental income on an eighth-acre piece of land" seems relevant to this discussion. Here is the link.

http://www.nairobistar.c...ghth-acre-piece-of-land

Rahatupu
#55 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:15:40 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
bwenyenye wrote:
Pablo wrote:
This is an argument that has been there since time in memorial.

Its all about your risk appetite.

Also without being too contraversial I can bet my A** that all those saying real estate is not worth it are likely to be below 35 or so and can only dream of Kshs. 10M. Those who have access to that type of cash am sure would jump to such an opportunity as GG has pointed out.


So u choose.


Seconded!


I second you too. As you get seasoned in investing in equities, small businesses, etc you mature into it and need no lecture on which out performs the others. Real estate IMHO returns less in the short term lakini long term is the trick. Look at how Kirima made his billions.
XSK
#56 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:51:23 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 975
Location: Nairobi
Rahatupu wrote:
bwenyenye wrote:
Pablo wrote:
This is an argument that has been there since time in memorial.

Its all about your risk appetite.

Also without being too contraversial I can bet my A** that all those saying real estate is not worth it are likely to be below 35 or so and can only dream of Kshs. 10M. Those who have access to that type of cash am sure would jump to such an opportunity as GG has pointed out.


So u choose.


Seconded!


I second you too. As you get seasoned in investing in equities, small businesses, etc you mature into it and need no lecture on which out performs the others. Real estate IMHO returns less in the short term lakini long term is the trick. Look at how Kirima made his billions.


I support this thinking also. Mark you for the stocks you also need to put alot of effort in research in order to find out what to buy or sell or hold.
You will know that you have arrived when money and time are not mutually exclusive "events" in you life!
Pablo
#57 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2011 12:00:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 567
Location: Nairobi
@Rahatupu
I think its referred to as consolidating.

As one pulls deals and hassles and climbs up the corporate ladder they need to keep consolidating what they have earned every soo often say 5 or 10 years. What better way to consolidate than invest in risk free, hassle free perpetual income that increases with inflation.

The return percentage will never be the same as the deals u can pull with the same capital.
action!
#58 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2011 1:02:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 47
The matter at hand, 10M investment with 100k return per month. Removing cost of running the investment, it will take say 10 years to pay back you initial capital. At that point (10yrs later) your 10M property is worth at least 18M. And with those cash flows, the banks will be willing to give you more money to build another after a few years. A good investment it is.
Genghis Khan
#59 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:06:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
african coloner wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
[quote=For Sport][quote=african coloner]i thouht you dont pay any tax on rental flats?


whaaaat?[/quot


how many people with rental flats pay tax?

Good question smile

You may not see the need to pay taxes now but one day... back taxes will get you good
Nicolas Cage; Al Capone etc
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
Genghis Khan
#60 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:13:06 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
So much effort & extra professional costs.

timesonline.co.uk wrote:
http://www.timesonline.c.../tax/article1996735.ece
Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary
Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent.

Your friend Warren doesn't make much of an effort either... if I were him I'd have tried to pay 7.7% or less!smile

I'm sure it will make more sense when I make more money... good practice though... and the system is on my side!
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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