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PAN Africa Insurance Earnings Tumble by 60%
the deal
#1 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:21:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
The NSE routs PAI's earnings http://af.reuters.com/ar...s/idAFL6E7JA1OZ20110810

Analysis here tommorrow morning.

Don't say i never warned folks about this insurance stockssmile
QW25071985
#2 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:34:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2011
Posts: 946
What abt the much hyped britak. Thank God it never bought. We know how much equity and hfck have fallen.
erifloss
#3 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:56:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 514
Location: Nairobi
QW25071985 wrote:
What abt the much hyped britak. Thank God it never bought. We know how much equity and hfck have fallen.

The moment i saw the value of Britak's investment in quoted shares coupled with the projected drop in earnings & their proposed investment plan for the funds raised signified a bad investment for anyone who had a plan of buying.
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
youcan'tstopusnow
#4 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:14:16 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
I thought they were going to make money from selling their stake in APA. They had also indicated that they were to finish selling off their houses in Runda. Ni kubaya. No wonder the stock had been beaten up way before the announcement!
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
mlennyma
#5 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:14:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,191
Location: nairobi
I wanted to buy it yesterday but changed mind to wait sub 20
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
FUNKY
#6 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:56:59 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/30/2010
Posts: 1,635
Even i fail to understand that they have stated their profits were down due to a sell of a stake in an associate that is APA. They sold of their stake at a huge gain so how come they are showing it at a loss?
mlennyma
#7 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 9:18:17 AM
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Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,191
Location: nairobi
May be the loss hole was so deep to be filled.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
guru267
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 10:19:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
http://af.reuters.com/ar...s/idAFL6E7JA1OZ20110810

http://af.reuters.com/ar...s/idAFJOE7720FL20110803

my dear friends of wazua this is where I reiterate my point that Jubilee holdings is not and will never be significantly affected by the performance of the NSE..

The same cannot be said about BRITAK, CIC, pan africa, CFC and kenya re which will all post lower profits in 2011 compared to 2010 with some even posting losses..

If you want insurance it doesn't get better than Jubilee.. smile
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
the deal
#9 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 10:58:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
My analysis on PAI http://www.contrarianinv...-investment-income.html

@Funky yes they did sell at a loss imagine!!!!!smile
2012
#10 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:00:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
I really don't envy the new Britak shareholders after this. Would be interesting to see just how low it will go after panic selling starts.

BBI will solve it
:)
guru267
#11 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:07:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
My analysis on PAI http://www.contrarianinv...-investment-income.html

@Funky yes they did sell at a loss imagine!!!!!smile


@the deal please have your analysis reviewed before posting it..

It is mathematically impossible for investment income to fall 434%. if it is still positive which it is.

And unless you expect PAI to make a loss this year it is also mathematically impossible for a company to announce a 200% drop in earnings.. Shame on you
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
QW25071985
#12 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:20:16 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2011
Posts: 946
guru267 wrote:
the deal wrote:
My analysis on PAI http://www.contrarianinv...-investment-income.html

@Funky yes they did sell at a loss imagine!!!!!smile


@the deal please have your analysis reviewed before posting it..

It is mathematically impossible for investment income to fall 434%. if it is still positive which it is.

And unless you expect PAI to make a loss this year it is also mathematically impossible for a company to announce a 200% drop in earnings.. Shame on you


hehehe. @deal. Why are you cooking your analysis . Lol .
the deal
#13 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2011 12:10:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
@QW defending @Guru...something must have happened...LOL...@guru catchy headlines do sell...they don't teach you that in economics school do they?...nothing wrong with my analysis...its world class...the best analysis in EA are found here http://contrarianinvestingkenya.info well the PAI show rings alarm bells for JUB...lets wait for that 45 bob EPS of yourssmile
guru267
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:06:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
well the PAI show rings alarm bells for JUB...lets wait for that 45 bob EPS of yourssmile


@the deal Jub had the same half year as pan africa.. Jan 2011-June 2011.. But one announces a 35% rise in earnings and the other a 60% decline in earnings..

Whereas PAI extracts most of their investment income from the NSE, Jubilee has managed to be more sensible and derive its investment income from the following..

1. IPS Power Investments (Tsavo Power generation)
2. Industrial Promotion Services Ltd.
3. Property Development & Management Ltd. (Real Estate development)
4. Bujagali Holding Power Company Ltd (Power Generation)
5. Seacom IPS Cable Systems Ltd (Fibre optics & data)
6. Government & Commercial Bonds (10 Billion at jun 2011)
7. Farmers Choice Ltd. (the only supermarket meat you will ever buy)

So with this kind of diversification in revenue streams out of the NSE and continued growth in underwriting profits from insurance I expect the 2011 results to look like this..

EPS: 45bob
DPS: 6-6.5Bob
Bonus: 1:10 (kawaida) or 2:1 (75 years celebration)
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
the deal
#15 Posted : Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:50:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Well @guru i'm aware of all Jub's investments...its a great company thats why its in my Nairobi20 Stock Index but still I say an EPS of Sh45 is an outlier...i can bet EPS will be stagnant or drop...those bonds will also be one of their undoing...when interest rates rise...bonds drop in value...well Bujagali has not reached its peak yet & with the prevailing drought in E.A. I don't their doing well...let me ask you, how much did the insurance business and subsidiaries contribute to Jub's bottomline in FY 2010?
guru267
#16 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:35:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
but still I say an EPS of Sh45 is an outlier...i can bet EPS will be stagnant or drop...
those bonds will also be one of their undoing...when interest rates rise...bonds drop in value...
well Bujagali has not reached its peak yet & with the prevailing drought in E.A. I don't their doing well...
let me ask you, how much did the insurance business and subsidiaries contribute to Jub's bottomline in FY 2010?


@the deal I have an answer for each one of your questions..

About the bonds, Jubilee purchased 40%-50% of their current bond holdings when the rates were high in Q2 2011.. When inflation cools and rates fall capital gains will begin to fly in.. Jubilee never buys expensive (low rate) bonds because they yield less than cash..

Bujagali has been started this year and trust me when I say in Uganda it has been raining cats & dogs daily all year round.. There is nothing like a drought there..

Insurance company and subsidiaries accounted for about 25% of Jubilee's earnings in 2010 and about 75% in H1 2011.. (Most of the accounting for insurance is done in the half year)
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
the deal
#17 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2011 12:52:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
guru267 wrote:
the deal wrote:
but still I say an EPS of Sh45 is an outlier...i can bet EPS will be stagnant or drop...
those bonds will also be one of their undoing...when interest rates rise...bonds drop in value...
well Bujagali has not reached its peak yet & with the prevailing drought in E.A. I don't their doing well...
let me ask you, how much did the insurance business and subsidiaries contribute to Jub's bottomline in FY 2010?


@the deal I have an answer for each one of your questions..

About the bonds, Jubilee purchased 40%-50% of their current bond holdings when the rates were high in Q2 2011.. When inflation cools and rates fall capital gains will begin to fly in.. Jubilee never buys expensive (low rate) bonds because they yield less than cash..

Bujagali has been started this year and trust me when I say in Uganda it has been raining cats & dogs daily all year round.. There is nothing like a drought there..

Insurance company and subsidiaries accounted for about 25% of Jubilee's earnings in 2010 and about 75% in H1 2011.. (Most of the accounting for insurance is done in the half year)

well i'm not in UG so you are better informed on that front, if insurance and subsidiaries contributed only 25% to Jub's bottomline in 2010, then where did the rest(75%) come from? That's where intelligent investors like me start expressing doubts...i don't expect inflation to fall anytime soon (not in 2H of 2011) so those Jub bonds will continue to bleed...when Jub announce a drop in profits in April 2012 and the share is at Sh130 thats when I will buy to sell at Sh220...smile
e_kijana
#18 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2011 3:14:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/17/2009
Posts: 55
Help me understand the issue with the bonds Jubilee is holding. If they dont sell the bonds there shouldnt be any risk. All they need to do is hold the bonds to maturity and collect their interest and in the books the bonds value should not change...
guru267
#19 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 12:18:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
if insurance and subsidiaries contributed only 25% to Jub's bottomline in 2010, then where did the rest(75%) come from? That's where intelligent investors like me start expressing doubts...i don't expect inflation to fall anytime soon (not in 2H of 2011) so those Jub bonds will continue to bleed...when Jub announce a drop in profits in April 2012 and the share is at Sh130 thats when I will buy to sell at Sh220...smile


@the deal there is a very clear reason why jubilee changed its name from jubilee insurance company to jubilee holdings limited.. It is not an insurance company but a HOLDING company that owns an insurance company and many others...

So the other 75% of the earnings in 2010 included 2.2billion in investment income from their various projects and 1.6billion in fair value gains of quoted shares..

Even if the fair value gains are not repeated in 2010 due to the poorly performing NSE I expect investment income and underwriting profits to soar like crazy and cover the loss from shares..

Please note the difference between fair value gains and investment income because they are not the same..

And yes, they can classify all their bonds as held to maturity and then their capital value remains the same no matter what..

Oh yeah are you aware that in 2010 bujagali contributed 100million to jubilee and the project hadnt even began operations yet?? I cant wait for the 2011 contribution..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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