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Who needs education...a couple of billionares didnt
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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sanity wrote:sometimes Life's strange.you spend so much on education yet you are no better than those who never went to school.take the UN for example.a proffesional 3 (P3) staff member in a peace keeping mission earns a base salary + allowances of at least Usd 10000!to become a P3 you require a masters degree and above plus several years experience.On the other hand a Field service officer of level 5(FS 5) in the same mission earns the same amount per month.Now to become Fs 5 ,all you need is high school education and several years experience. For more info check the UN website. Remember a P-3 can move to P-4 and P-5 - In Nairobi with post adjustment, rental and education subsidies! While you as a FS-5 you need to live in some Berserkistan or Absurdistan republic - risking life and limb (being given instructions by a P). All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/11/2011 Posts: 17
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jasonhill wrote:School worth it? Depends...
For what school costs in Kenya, go, and go until you can't go anymore. If you get a scholarship there or abroad, use it, and go. Learn all you can. Get a graduate degree. Then enter your field. Don't think that Kenyan schools are subpar. They aren't they are fine schools. All that is lacking is the education on how to hustle and take it from the classroom to the street, and to the boardroom, and that is lacking in schools everywhere. That's something you simply learn in the trenches... as long as you believe in yourself and your countrymen and WORK TOGETHER.
For the hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs to go to many schools in the US, eh, you're better off putting that money into land, housing, or something that will appreciate back home. Here, you can easily spend $250,000 on a Bachelors from, say, USC, and come out and make $30k a year... IF you can find a job, and without a green card, you can give that up. Get your toilet paper ready, and prepare to wipe some old Mzungu behinds! Investment-wise, 250k for 30k ain't smart, especially because it will cost you $40k a year to live (hello debt).
Now, if you work your butt off and send money home, where it can go farther, and if you take a few, eh, ahem, risks while abroad and get as much cash as you can, go home and then go to school for a few grand, you've made out well. It's just so very hard to get trapped in the debt cycle here in the US... then comes alcohol, bhangi, and next thing you know, you are on welfare or doing manoki work, begging some Mzungu to marry you for papers. Avoid that, and do like the Russians and Nigerians do and GET MONEY, STAY FOCUSED. To jump in the ghettos made for Acatas, spending all your money trying to impress people back home into thinking you are doing great is a darn shame and a disaster, KCSE scores long past. That's not a pleasant place to be.
Now if you are in a high-paying field, then, that's different. You can go abroad, make 100k a year and live off of 30k, sending the rest home, and then you will have a nice retirement after 20 years IF you can stay focused and not start thinking that you are an Mzungu that needs to drive german cars and live in 4000 sq ft houses. I know a chick that did this after ten years, now living in Lavington and enjoying life. She sold securities for a big investment firm here. And left her school debt, credit cards, loans, etc sitting in the US UNPAID LOLOLOLOL. liquidated, and went home with seven figures... selling securities makes good money here. Smart girl.
And if you are not abroad, listen to all the intelligent advice from all the people here on Wazua. And don't wish to be abroad... it ain't fun wiping old peoples *arses.
Hill JasonHill I agree with you 100%, where's that clap smiley. But nowadays if you default on your loans I think they'll find you. What would you say to a young man who's a very good friend of mine, he made it through school without loans - 2 years of community college, then one year of state college, then fell sick, couldn't get back into the state college, and now can't seem to be able to find a school he can join at the same amount of money? Should he take student loans for a year and pay them off (eg like $30,000), or should he take them, finish and run away (and nowadays I hear they can smoke you out of wherever), or should he just quit? I think education counts but to a point... it's not worth it if it's going to kill you to pay for it....
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/5/2010 Posts: 335 Location: Nairobi
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I think that the problem with most education systems is that they are misapplied. The blueprint of these systems originated in medieval europe, I think what is now Germany. It was Goverment sanctioned. The motivation was to create / develop a competent and disciplined workforce to help run goverment. Soldiers, administrators, taxmen / accountants, judicial officials etc. The real enterprenuers had no need for such "school". The farmers, gold & blacksmiths, merchants etc. learnt from their own kind through apprenticeship. You can only learn to be a doctor from a doctor, a lawyer from a lawyer, a pilot from a pilot, a thief from a thief, an enterprenuer from an enterprenuer...My former Kiswahili teacher had no interest in nuturing the development of my mathematical or business skills. Alinifunza ufasaha wa lugha: ngeli, mizani katika shairi, sadfa katika fasihi. Nina ufasaha mwingi wa lugha hii lakini hauna maana au thamani katika maisha yangu ya sasa. Mimi hata siongei kiswahili mufti... I use sheng & with the usual mixture of English words. Consider what we did in school: Parade every morning... prefects & teachers checked if my shoes were polished, shirt & shorts ironed, socks pulled up etc. I did Geography... I know how lakes are formed, glaciers, desert landscapes, platetechtonic theories... I did math till university... calculus, complex numbers, advanced statistics... I did chemistry... mole concept! Enough said. I did biology... from mitochondria to Darwin's Theory From history I know Australopithecus Boisei, Otto von Bismack, Cecil Rhodes, Moi, Kenyatta, Mboya... nothing about Nathan Rothschild, JPMorgan, Rockefeller or even Ndegwa... I also did agriculture, physics and a few others. By the time i finished 844, 16years... I did not know how to open a CDS account, i did not know what a bond / stock / option was. I did not even understand how pension schemes worked! No one told me how to save, how to apply for a loan / mortgage! I learnt how to write a CV but not a business plan, nor a budget, nor a sales strategy! But in primary school homescience, i sewed pin cushions, fringed mats and a lap bag... no one taught me how to make a business plan or how to apply for a business loan or how to pick a good shop location in case i wanted to open a tailoring business! Strange? No wonder our great grandparents mostly sent their least industrious and weakest children to mzungu school leaving the better ones in the home! "I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME "The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN "Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/7/2009 Posts: 1,032 Location: Sea of Transquility
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FACT Genghis Khan, nuff said, can't agree more. Education is of-course essential, the importance of learning basic techniques like reading and writing, communication, analytical reasoning etc. cannot be over emphasised. REALITY The paradox is that the very nature of education system has been structured to produce workers(read slaves), right from its onset, as u've pointed out 'medieval Europe'. HOPE Only those who break from this yoke through carrying on different thoughts, say entrepreneurs etc end up to accomplish something. CONSOLATION Just to wind up ponder on this quote by Barrack Obama. 'You cannot get anywhere without putting some good ideas forward' “small step for man”
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/5/2010 Posts: 335 Location: Nairobi
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@Ceinz, I agree. @ALL, Maybe we should change the header of this thread... FROM: Who needs education...a couple of billionares didnt TO: Who needs education...a billion pips with only a couple of shillings "I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME "The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN "Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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who taught Larry Page and Sergey Brin all these things. don't blame people for your lack of enterprise. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/7/2009 Posts: 1,032 Location: Sea of Transquility
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Genghis Khan wrote:@Ceinz, I agree.
@ALL, Maybe we should change the header of this thread...
FROM: Who needs education...a couple of billionares didnt
TO: Who needs education...a billion pips with only a couple of shillings
I beg to differ, my suggestions being;- 1.Who needs education...real education is self education. 2.Who needs education...think beyond ur education 3.Who needs education...a rethink to our education system These are just suggestions, feel to support, ammend or add others. “small step for man”
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Posts: 31
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For me Education is so important to self and to life itself,much if one can go through the 1st Degree as a minimum.I believe University just teaches us more than the books and structured courses and most often one can know ones maturity level from a non graduate with a graduate .Life after campus however is different . most of us end up in very different careers from what we pursued in college or campus and those who are aggressive in the new acquired skills or environment make it to the top. One time or another, those who made it business or ventures without going to school make some ways of going to school.so you will find them as "surprise" graduands in universities after having pursued either parallel ,part time or online degree course. To me i think the guilt of no papers gets up with them :)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2010 Posts: 906 Location: Nairobi
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I believe the mental state of Kenyans in higher education systems is where the flaw is. A myth has been propagated in our society that once you just get your papers, you are 'safe.' This means that in Kenya, you now find a mental malaise that runs through the universities, where next to nobody knows why on earth they are there in the first place. Taking life from Friday to Friday, and leaving your destiny to chance(after all, they will be 'safe' after all is said and done, right?). Further to that, there are those in the 'prestigious' courses who harbour an extremely dangerous sense of entitlement, where they feel as though the corridors of success should be cleared at the mere mention of their degree(they will be the 'safest').
This short-sighted thinking nurtured in college leads one to fall into many unforseen traps in life, ultimately leading many top minds sliding into a cycle of hand-to-mouth employment that is so, so hard to get out of.
The lack of the safety illusion forced these billionaires to take control of their lives. It forced them to have an unmatched drive, and maximise their potential. My point is, college is not the problem, it is the mentality surrounding it that is off
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2011 Posts: 322 Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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waridi1 wrote:jasonhill wrote:School worth it? Depends...
For what school costs in Kenya, go, and go until you can't go anymore. If you get a scholarship there or abroad, use it, and go. Learn all you can. Get a graduate degree. Then enter your field. Don't think that Kenyan schools are subpar. They aren't they are fine schools. All that is lacking is the education on how to hustle and take it from the classroom to the street, and to the boardroom, and that is lacking in schools everywhere. That's something you simply learn in the trenches... as long as you believe in yourself and your countrymen and WORK TOGETHER.
For the hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs to go to many schools in the US, eh, you're better off putting that money into land, housing, or something that will appreciate back home. Here, you can easily spend $250,000 on a Bachelors from, say, USC, and come out and make $30k a year... IF you can find a job, and without a green card, you can give that up. Get your toilet paper ready, and prepare to wipe some old Mzungu behinds! Investment-wise, 250k for 30k ain't smart, especially because it will cost you $40k a year to live (hello debt).
Now, if you work your butt off and send money home, where it can go farther, and if you take a few, eh, ahem, risks while abroad and get as much cash as you can, go home and then go to school for a few grand, you've made out well. It's just so very hard to get trapped in the debt cycle here in the US... then comes alcohol, bhangi, and next thing you know, you are on welfare or doing manoki work, begging some Mzungu to marry you for papers. Avoid that, and do like the Russians and Nigerians do and GET MONEY, STAY FOCUSED. To jump in the ghettos made for Acatas, spending all your money trying to impress people back home into thinking you are doing great is a darn shame and a disaster, KCSE scores long past. That's not a pleasant place to be.
Now if you are in a high-paying field, then, that's different. You can go abroad, make 100k a year and live off of 30k, sending the rest home, and then you will have a nice retirement after 20 years IF you can stay focused and not start thinking that you are an Mzungu that needs to drive german cars and live in 4000 sq ft houses. I know a chick that did this after ten years, now living in Lavington and enjoying life. She sold securities for a big investment firm here. And left her school debt, credit cards, loans, etc sitting in the US UNPAID LOLOLOLOL. liquidated, and went home with seven figures... selling securities makes good money here. Smart girl.
And if you are not abroad, listen to all the intelligent advice from all the people here on Wazua. And don't wish to be abroad... it ain't fun wiping old peoples *arses.
Hill JasonHill I agree with you 100%, where's that clap smiley. But nowadays if you default on your loans I think they'll find you. What would you say to a young man who's a very good friend of mine, he made it through school without loans - 2 years of community college, then one year of state college, then fell sick, couldn't get back into the state college, and now can't seem to be able to find a school he can join at the same amount of money? Should he take student loans for a year and pay them off (eg like $30,000), or should he take them, finish and run away (and nowadays I hear they can smoke you out of wherever), or should he just quit? I think education counts but to a point... it's not worth it if it's going to kill you to pay for it.... Well, if he takes out loans based on personal credit, like all other types of credit he can claim bankruptcy and discharge the debts- and illness is a common reason to do so, however, this will ruin his US credit for about 3 years, after which he can start to repair it. If he is staying in the US, then having bad credit is a concern. He will have to pay cash for most things until his credit gets better. If he gets government-backed school loans, they cannot be discharged. Since your friend is already over 2 years in, I think that he should go ahead and finish. Is he still ill? Is he working? I know that in the state of Ohio, Franklin University will allow one to do 3 years at Columbus State, for the cost of community college, and then do the last year at Franklin University, which is at a reasonable cost. I guess it is about what your friend can afford, where in the states he is located, and what financial situation he is in. And yes, as long as he remains in the US, if he were to default on government-back school loans, they will place a garnishment of 25% on his wages along with 12% compounded interest until he pays them off. He should also keep applying to many schools. He is bound to find one that will accept him, and at the cost he is looking for. Cheers Waridi, Hill
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/24/2011 Posts: 407 Location: Nairobi,Kenya
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Hope is not a strategy
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/5/2010 Posts: 335 Location: Nairobi
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"Don't let schooling interfere with your education." - MARK TWAIN"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME "The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN "Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/28/2011 Posts: 27
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i'd rather drop out if i got THE idea. and while in campus too. at least i'll know something if the idea fails to work out.they do mention some few billionaires who dropped out of school, but what about the many so not blessed drop outs?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2010 Posts: 906 Location: Nairobi
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@craig the statistics are skewed on both sides of the divide. There are many 'not so blessed' Masters and PhD. students as well. I say pick your side and fight to the death! :D
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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I would rather read and implement then get rich/wealthy e.t.c. I once got an email from an 'inspired' character who no doubt after watching 'the social network' had the idea bulb lit....this is what he wrote to me joseph wrote: its great to see this. am just have a thought of starting a social network but have little about html and others. can you inform if you can assist
i laughed and sent him back this link (http://www.iddsalim.com/blog/2011/06/20/the-annoying-even-google-and-facebook-were-started-in-a-dorm-room-fallacy/) All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/22/2011 Posts: 41
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While I echo some sentiments about going to school and not, I think it largely depends with where you are and in this circumstance, you need to be more educated in Kenya than in states for you to make it. But then it depends on your character, whether you are the employee type or just want to be your own employer. America has got a lot to offer especially if you are ambitious and know the know how stuff unlike Kenya where everything is just messed up and have to depend on your education unless you are well connected or come from a rich family. Education is to some degree useful unless you are in Kenya where its more useful and advantageous unlike here where you got the internet and can pretty much research everything and get yourself going. I was really struggling with school until I took a course known as small business administration /education and that’s when all the links were given to me by a professor about starting your own business and the available resources to help you make it. In three months, I quit school, opened up two businesses and hired those Mexicans that pretty much know everything while I knew nothing except from using my survival skills (call it kanuwa maguta) from back there and the rest is history. If Kenya could lend to any person who had an initiative and also had support systems that would go into detail about how to do this and that, then we would be better off than where we are now. When you see all these drop outs being mentioned, its because there were support systems for them to flourish. http://www.sba.gov/categ...-structure/loans-grants
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/
@ Jason Hill You cant discharge student loans even if you filed for bankruptcy, you gotta pay them. @ Sport. You can have the American dream if you wanted to, that is if you live here but if you are the kind of person who only believes in being employed and doesn’t see beyond their nose, then my friend you gotta toil.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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the billionares did learn one thing well enough to get them where they are. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2011 Posts: 322 Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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bomboclat wrote:@ Jason Hill You cant discharge student loans even if you filed for bankruptcy, you gotta pay them.
True, that's why I said use non-educational loans and credit. But, either way, "gotta" only applies if you are staying ;) and even at that, only if you decide to get a job in the US. ;) I know professionals that were born in the US that have picked up and left, to work elsewhere after the financial crash, that have six figure school debt still owed. Trust me, the last thing they are worried about at this point is bill collectors. Even when they return to visit, it's not like collection agents will be waiting at the airport hounding them. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just stating facts- don't let the price deter you if you if have a opportunity and a judgement-proof exit plan, even if that means making minimum payments, or staying registered in school long enough to defer the pay-back for several years while you send money home. Best, Hill
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Rank: User Joined: 1/24/2012 Posts: 1,675 Location: In Da Hood
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/16/2012 Posts: 660
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Genghis Khan wrote:I think that the problem with most education systems is that they are misapplied.
The blueprint of these systems originated in medieval europe, I think what is now Germany. It was Goverment sanctioned. The motivation was to create / develop a competent and disciplined workforce to help run goverment. Soldiers, administrators, taxmen / accountants, judicial officials etc.
The real enterprenuers had no need for such "school". The farmers, gold & blacksmiths, merchants etc. learnt from their own kind through apprenticeship. You can only learn to be a doctor from a doctor, a lawyer from a lawyer, a pilot from a pilot, a thief from a thief, an enterprenuer from an enterprenuer...
My former Kiswahili teacher had no interest in nuturing the development of my mathematical or business skills. Alinifunza ufasaha wa lugha: ngeli, mizani katika shairi, sadfa katika fasihi. Nina ufasaha mwingi wa lugha hii lakini hauna maana au thamani katika maisha yangu ya sasa. Mimi hata siongei kiswahili mufti... I use sheng & with the usual mixture of English words.
Consider what we did in school:
Parade every morning... prefects & teachers checked if my shoes were polished, shirt & shorts ironed, socks pulled up etc.
I did Geography... I know how lakes are formed, glaciers, desert landscapes, platetechtonic theories...
I did math till university... calculus, complex numbers, advanced statistics...
I did chemistry... mole concept! Enough said.
I did biology... from mitochondria to Darwin's Theory
From history I know Australopithecus Boisei, Otto von Bismack, Cecil Rhodes, Moi, Kenyatta, Mboya... nothing about Nathan Rothschild, JPMorgan, Rockefeller or even Ndegwa...
I also did agriculture, physics and a few others.
By the time i finished 844, 16years... I did not know how to open a CDS account, i did not know what a bond / stock / option was. I did not even understand how pension schemes worked! No one told me how to save, how to apply for a loan / mortgage!
I learnt how to write a CV but not a business plan, nor a budget, nor a sales strategy!
But in primary school homescience, i sewed pin cushions, fringed mats and a lap bag... no one taught me how to make a business plan or how to apply for a business loan or how to pick a good shop location in case i wanted to open a tailoring business! Strange?
No wonder our great grandparents mostly sent their least industrious and weakest children to mzungu school leaving the better ones in the home! Some of these threads need to be revived time and again Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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