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Islam and marriage
Magigi
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:39:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
... A Saudi Arabian man has married an 8 year old girl. The father sold off the girl to pay debts. The husband,an old geezer,claims that he will not touch her until she attains puberty (can you believe him!!!). The girl does not want to be married. So it is a forced marriage. The case has gone to court and the court has looked at it from the religious point of view and seen nothing wrong with a marriage of an 8yr old girl.

From what I have gathered,Prophet Mohammed married one of his 11 wives,Aisha,at a tender age of 6 years. Unbelievable!!! In Saudi Arabia,a woman is required to cover herself fully and there are religious policemen who move around to ensure this is strictly followed. A woman here is alo not allowed to drive any type of vehicle.
Magigi
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:41:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
...for thosewho know,after marrying these children,do the husbands wait until they mature or they just start right away? It is so worrying!
xtina
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:49:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 384
That is the strict version if Islam. Honestly i pray for Muslim women in those countries. I hope they go to heaven after experiencing hell on earth. God have mercy

First there was white power,then black power,now there's no power!
Kasheshi
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:50:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/27/2008
Posts: 150
@ magigi,this has more to do with poverty and low education levels than with religion. I believe the maasai or some other pastorolist communities also do the same. It's a real shame

R
The Real Shaft
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:56:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
magigi*

please do not misadvise......

the culture of those who proclaim Islam.....

allow them to marry 6 year olds.....

do not connect Islam and cultural marriages...

these are two mutually exclusive events....


where in the Holy Books do we see an age limit...???

I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
Magigi
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:52:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
...@Kacheshi;....poverty in Saudi Arabia??? Tell me another lie.... Have those people in poverty stricken areas in Kenya sold their daughters? No,Their high moral standing can not allow them to do this.

@Real: ...whether this is their culture or not,it is only a psycho who can sleep with a 6 year old in the name of wife!!!
wote
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:08:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/18/2007
Posts: 217
The Real Shaft,what law books did the judges look at in upholding the marriage of that 8 years old child to a 58 years old as valid?

I stand to be corrected but view is that magigi is 100% correct,its the islamic law books which are based on the holy Quran. Which is the Islamic religion as opposed to culture.


wote
The Real Shaft
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:30:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
wote* magigi*...

someni vijana..... mwisho wakusoma......etc...

Islam and Arabic culture are two distinct phenomena......

however,in the past 1400 years...

the two have gelled......

in the Arabic peninsula....

'marrying' 6 to 9 year olds was and is cultural..... not ISLAMIC....

and when we say 'marrying'....

it does not mean....

that there shall be consumation of that marriage......

it means becoming betrothed to.... the man...

meaning the man who wishes to marry the 6 year old...

will take care of her... health... education.... etc

until she attains the age of majority..

which is 18 to 21years... when she can really get MARRIED.....
sio kama huko..... it is a miracle to find a 21 year old virgin....

the Arabic world represents women more than you do........


I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
Robinhood
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:18:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
shafty,

i think you are burying your head in the sand bro. The grand mufti or whatever they call the highest ranking cleric in saudi arabia recently ruled that its ok for one to marry such children. The mother of the kid mentioned above has been trying to get this marriage annulled by the courts with no success so far. Surely if it was as easy as a simple betrothal the case would not be doing rounds in the courts. it seems as if this is a legal thing the courts have to declare null and void.

BTW,is this not the same place where they practice honour killings? If a girl wants to opt out of the arranged marriage then she is killed for spoilling the family's honour?

God is good
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
The Real Shaft
#10 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:44:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
robinhood*..

it is the classic misunderstanding...... misadvice...... misconstruction....

of the terro buru ceremony...

even those who claim to belong to the communities that practise it.....

they do not know half the meaning...

they see it a chance to inherit other people's property (OPP)....

and then the myopic fellows such as yours truly.....

sees what these opportunistic fellows are up to...

and we confirm that terro buru is a ceremony...

to develop a harem....

there is always more to it than meets the 'eye'....or is it the 'I'

I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
VituVingiSana
#11 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 8:01:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
This is SICK. Ati,wait till puberty. The girl-child could attain puberty at 9-13. In my books 5 years too young. SICK.

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Obi 1 Kanobi
#12 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 8:19:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
What about the girls right to choose!

Sad that it boils down to money,the West will not even bat an eyelid about this yet they continue to preach their way of life to the rest of the world. Because of the oil.

But that does not excuse Saudi Arabia and Islam,they are wholy responsible.

Shame.


I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
VituVingiSana
#13 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 8:28:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
Come on. What do you expect the West to do? This is a ruling by the JUDGE in the country. The same crap happens in Kenya but the muslims hide it from the media. Or accuse the media of 'aping' Western culture.

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Mr.Tea
#14 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 8:33:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/4/2008
Posts: 341
Location: Nairobi
@Real
I do not think that culture and religion in this part of the world are two and mutually exclusive entities otherwise the discordance and disharmony would be clear. Religion plays a very central rolein this case.The fact that the prophet Mohammed married and underage girl in itself means that it is condoned.I not familiar with Saudia's justice system but think that they operate under Sharia law which has its basis from the Koran. Islam itself has extensively borrowed from the bedouin culture.My point is the two are irredeemably intertwined.

Patience Pays in Guaranteed Checks
Patience Pays In Guaranteed Checks.
VituVingiSana
#15 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 8:43:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
You are right. Just as judaism borrowed a lot from the local semitic culture... the same for islam... i.e. bedouins,etc

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
The Real Shaft
#16 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:07:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
Mr. Tea*,

thanks for bringing some intellectualism to the discourse.....

however...

i stand to differ...

look at the relationship between the African cultures and religion....

monogamy vis-a-vis polygamy and polyandry...

look at the Christian Maasai marrying off their thirteen year old daughters....

would someone be correct in saying that the Christianity practised by the Maa people..

allows paedophilic tendancies...???

remember the cause and effect logic doesnt apply in cultural and religious morality...

I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
Mr.Tea
#17 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:19:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/4/2008
Posts: 341
Location: Nairobi
@Real,
True that. But my argument is restricted to that part of the world. This is mainly because,the Middle East has remained the focal point for the religion.Mecca et al.Also the fact that it evolved from there as opposed to Christianity which came with missionaries and found existing religions in Africa.

Patience Pays in Guaranteed Checks
Patience Pays In Guaranteed Checks.
VituVingiSana
#18 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:30:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
In Kenya,a Maa (Christian & Traditional) can be taken to court - and punished - for marrying off his underage daughter. Even the bridegrrom could be in trouble. In saudi arabia,the judge probably has an underage wife/concubine/sex-slave!

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
The Real Shaft
#19 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:42:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
look at the history of the Abrahamic faiths.....

what came first...

the people ... the so called 'chosen people...'

or the...

faiths...???

I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
Ngalaka
#20 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2009 5:56:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Where are the muslim brothers and sisters to shed some light on this from Islam's point of view.

Things arent always the way they look like
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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