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Family claims Opus Dei lured daughter...
Wendz
#41 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:32:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
McReggae wrote:
@anasazi,
Should be verse 23: NIV: If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

King james version: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained


...... may be i interpret the bible wrongly, I still feel it is not right to confess to the priest.... my interpretation (may be it is a selfish one to suit myself but it makes sense) is that whomever you forgive (if they have wronged you) shall be forgiven.... as in, in this case, it talks to those offended not the priests. Just like in Our Lords Prayer "forgive us our sins as WE FORGIVE those who trespass AGAINST US).... If you forgive those who have wronged you, they are forgiven in heaven... if you dont, they are not forgiven... not the priests to forgive us....... my thinking

by the way, am catholic... but since high school, this bit of confession to the priest stopped making sense to me so i stopped going for confessions... i ask for forgiveness directly from God....

WARNING please do not follow my way, i could be totally lost..... You know what the bible says about anyone who looses any of His sheep. Am not ready to face it.
YesuWangu
#42 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:35:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Connection between the Society of Jesus and Opus Dei?

Of all the Catholic orders and societies, the Society of Jesus lords it over them all as it were. They even got their own pope, aka the black pope,aka the Superior General.

One of their most successful tools developed by the Ignatius, founder of the Society of Jesus, has been the Spiritual Exercises, now widely practised even among 'protestants' and evangelicals in different names like 'contemplative prayer', 'purpose driven life' and so on.

Sample:
Quote:
It presents a formulation of Ignatius' spirituality in a series of prayer exercises, thought experiments, and examinations of consciousness—designed to help a retreatant (usually with the aid of a spiritual director) to experience a deeper conversion into life with God in Christ, to allow our personal stories to be interpreted by being subsumed in a Story of God.
(emphasis mine)

Sounds nice and desirable, until you get the other name for that; hypnotism.

But dont take my word for it. You can read the text and relevant info here: Spiritual Exercises

'The Way' a collection of 999 religious maxims published by Josemaria Escriva, the founder of Opus Dei affirms that 'True christians must be discplined and obedient to a Spiritual Director.' Robert Hutchinson. Their Kingdom Come; Inside the Secret World of Opus Dei. New York: St. Martins Press 1944, pg. 84.

One can dig it up here as well: The Way

So you see, the Society of Jesus document is a useful and vital document for Catholics, Opus Dei included.

Someone has mentioned confessing to father?

Quote:
With regards to the mystic body of Christ, that is, all the faithful, the priest has the power of the keys, or the power of delivering sinners from Hell, of making them worthy of Paradise, and of changing them from the slaves of Satan into the children of God. And God Himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of His priests, and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse or give absolution, provided the penitent is capable of it. "Such is," says St. Maximus of Turin, "this judiciary power ascribed to Peter that its decision carries with it the decision of God." The sentence of the priest precedes, and God subscribes to it, writes St. Peter Damian. Hence, St John Chrysostom thus concludes: The sovereign Master of the universe only
follows the servant by confirming in Heaven all that the latter decides upon earth." Priests are the dispensers of the Divine gra


The emphasis is mine but as usual, my word might mean nothing. Read for your selves Dignities and duties of the priest Page 3, the last paragraph.


McReggae
#43 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:07:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Wendz wrote:
McReggae wrote:
@anasazi,
Should be verse 23: NIV: If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

King james version: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained


...... may be i interpret the bible wrongly, I still feel it is not right to confess to the priest.... my interpretation (may be it is a selfish one to suit myself but it makes sense) is that whomever you forgive (if they have wronged you) shall be forgiven.... as in, in this case, it talks to those offended not the priests. Just like in Our Lords Prayer "forgive us our sins as WE FORGIVE those who trespass AGAINST US).... If you forgive those who have wronged you, they are forgiven in heaven... if you dont, they are not forgiven... not the priests to forgive us....... my thinking

by the way, am catholic... but since high school, this bit of confession to the priest stopped making sense to me so i stopped going for confessions... i ask for forgiveness directly from God....

WARNING please do not follow my way, i could be totally lost..... You know what the bible says about anyone who looses any of His sheep. Am not ready to face it.


Wendz: I quoted that because that is the normal defence for the confession practice, otherwise we are in the same boat concerning this subject matter!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
anasazi
#44 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:50:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2007
Posts: 675
@YesuWangu, I did not ask what a document said about confessing to a father. I asked what the Bible says.

In my opinion, this is unscriptural - "And God Himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of His priests, and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse or give absolution"

The issue I'm pointing to here is that there are some practices that have no basis in Scripture (or the basis has been taken out of context).

In fact this is an unscriptural idea that I reject totally - "the priest has the power of the keys, or the power of delivering sinners from Hell, of making them worthy of Paradise, and of changing them from the slaves of Satan into the children of God"

Only God has executive power to do all those things claimed. The priest is only a servant to point the way, or to give counsel. God is no man's debtor, and is only obliged to fulfil His own Word, not a priest's or pope's word.
Form is temporary, class is permanent
YesuWangu
#45 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:07:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Anasazi, have I come out like I am hawking for Peters' Successor? lol. I am not.

It usually happens that people are immune to bible verses. If you open one it will be dismissed with contempt no less.

Perhaps they will not be dismissive if they get to know what is taught and believed within what they defend.

For example, what you say is very true, but how many Catholics will believe you? Or even like you?

On the other hand if you quote for them examples of errors in the Catholic church such as shown in the Catholic Record that states that 'The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact.' They will pause, reflect and hopefully reconsider.

This is just one of the numerous traditions of the Catholic church, and definitely not the last.

To destroy any doubts of manipulation, someone fortunately made a facsimile copy of that page HERE. Clever person.

Its good to know what is taught and believed in ones own church. I was also like sister Wendz and McRaggae, a disillusioned and disgruntled catholic. Searching inward towards my beliefs took me out of there. I did not expect to get out.

The numerous encyclicals contain shockers, if only people could read them. But then again maybe the best way to hide something might just be to put it in writing and no one will know.

YesuWangu
#46 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:20:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Sample this PROVIDENTISSIMUS DEUS ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON THE STUDY OF HOLY SCRIPTURE

A very long document. One gets tired reading after the first paragraph and one forgets what was written at the top of the paragraph by the time one is halfway that same paragraph.

But within in is this interesting piece

Quote:
Catholic doctrine, as authoritatively proposed by the Church, should be held as the supreme law; for, seeing that the same God is the author both of the Sacred Books and of the doctrine committed to the Church, it is clearly impossible that any teaching can by legitimate means be extracted from the former, which shall in any respect be at variance with the latter. Hence it follows that all interpretation is foolish and false which either makes the sacred writers disagree one with another, or is opposed to the doctrine of the Church.


Emphasis is mine, as usual...yawn!
otienosmall
#47 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 3:33:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
YesuWangu wrote:

Have you not known, have you not heard? Protestantism is dead! Its finished, kaput, kabisa! And there is none but the Society of Jesus to thank for that.

Look, all the 'prostestants' are falling over themselves, some in a most comical fashion, trooping back to mater ekklesia.

sample:
a) Anglicans have remodeled their church in London to be like the one in Rome.
b) Lutherans have offered copious apologies for Martin Luthers' less-than-polite indiscretions.
c) etc

So there is no protestant church, save one 'sect' (for that is what it is called nowadays) in the true sense of the word 'protestant'. And that 'sect' is the final loose end left for the Society of Jesus to tie up. More on that later.

So it is hardly surprising that there is no difference between 'protestants' and Catholics. There should be not, after all, 'we define that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff holds the primacy over the whole world.' The Most Holy Councils. Vol 3 col 1167.

Anyway, back to Opus Dei, that lady is a prime example of what good Catholics should be. After internalising the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola, all Catholics should be exactly like that, serving the Successor of Peter, perinde ac cadavre . In the manner of a corpse.

Those who mentioned 'brainwashing' or lack of brains thereof, were on to something they were not even aware of.

If one is a catholic and has not got to that stage, then one is obviously failing in his faith. Maybe one should attend the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome if Strathmore university is not hacking it so that one can '.. serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the cross and to serve the lord alone and the church his spouse, under the Roman pontiff, the vicar of christ on earth' - Apostolic Letter Exposcit Debitum 21 July 1550.




@YesuWangu Wao! You have really dug into this conspiracy of the so called Catholisms. The Bible teaches us of events that will follow shortly before the coming of our Christ Jesus. The changes and events will be so gradual that many will not realized and will take them as normal and before we know it, we will be comfortably living under the New World Order mentored by Satan. Men who have publicly declared to be gay are being ordained to become men of clothes, abortion is being legalized etc. There are many changes happening; big deviations from sound doctrine yet are embraced by many mainstream churches and termed as fashionable. Protestantism is truly gone. The gospel lie was initiated many centuries ago. Unfortunately, when a lie is repeated and taught for eons, it becomes part of us and is taken as the gospel truth. The perpetrators of the lie are quit good; consider Joseph Alois Ratzinger born on 16 April, 1927 in Germany. Joined Hitler killer brigades on his 14th birthday in 1941, whose main aim was to eliminate Jews and to persecute true Christians. Today he is known as Pope Benedict XVI and the current leader of the Catholic Church????? No wonder they change their names to hide their dirty past!!!
McReggae
#48 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 3:57:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
otienosmall, you are suffering from selective amnesia in dispensing your views:

Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth – as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939[9] – but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[10] In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and killed during the Aktion T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.[11] In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer.[10] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[12] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household.[13] As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the war in the summer of 1945.[13] He reentered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
otienosmall
#49 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 4:10:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
McReggae wrote:
otienosmall, you are suffering from selective amnesia in dispensing your views:

Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth – as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939[9] – but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[10] In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and killed during the Aktion T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.[11] In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer.[10] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[12] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household.[13] As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the war in the summer of 1945.[13] He reentered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year.


Wikipedia-word-to-word…..wish you checked somewhere else..Liar Liar Liar Liar
McReggae
#50 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 4:18:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
otieno, somewhere else that suits your thinking, the word of God cannot be spread by alarmists and rumour mongers like you, you only manage to polarize the world and leave a worse place!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
otienosmall
#51 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 4:31:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
McReggae wrote:
otieno, somewhere else that suits your thinking, the word of God cannot be spread by alarmists and rumour mongers like you, you only manage to polarize the world and leave a worse place!!!!



Kindly don’t get agitated I rest my casesmile smile smile smile smile smile Pray Pray Pray Pray
Kaka M
#52 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:02:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/18/2011
Posts: 459
I was a member of Opus dei for a period of 4 years and I choose to leave out of my own will. Before I joined it was compulsory that I inform my parents about my intention and I was interviewed to establish if I understood what I was getting into. After the first 6 months I was inteviewed again to confirm if I was still interested in continuing and if I was understanding the lessons I was getting. I would then become a member for a year before another interview (evaluation) After those 1.5 years I was supposed to voluntarily renew or discontinue my membership every year for a period of five years before deciding to become a member for a lifetime. When I decided to leave I communicated to the persons responsible of my intention to leave and since I had 5 months before the next renewal, I prayed about my decision I was counselled and eventually I left in peace. I still treasure the time I was being prepared to be a member and the 4 years as a member. It has contributed positively to who I am today. Before we go condemning lets have in mind that at least every Faith has it's strong believers and those who vehemently deny it. Even the very existance of God (Supreme Being) is denied by so many people so these kinds of protests and nothing new.
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