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Family claims Opus Dei lured daughter...
mukiha
#31 Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 2:46:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
I get intimidated by loooong posts. So I will admit that I have not read lisao'x 648-word monologue, nor otienosmall's 2,182-word thesis in full. But in a nutshell, the two posts sound like a "mine is bigger that yours" argument.

Otienosmall claims to have been a catholic-turned-protestant while lisaox is a protestant-turned-catholic. The two will never agree and any further discussion is a waste of time!

Back to the topic of this thread: do the Opus Dei "force" people to join them? I would agree with @Spend.thrift: "how can you brainwash a 25 year old or any other adult for that matter? If anything, it means there was no brain in the first place."
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Wendz
#32 Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 4:13:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
otienosmall wrote:
I am happy not many Catholics were ready to justify their misguided Baal worship….I could have educated them some more at the expense of being unpopular as Lolest! puts itApplause Applause Applause Applause


Well, i do not know much of the history of religions.... and i know there are some things i can not explain in catholicism, but dude, if Mary and Jesus were creations of catholic, don't the protestants also believe these same individuals exist or at least existed.... and by the way, Muslims also believe in the mystery birth of Jesus? Are you also saying that the protestants do not believe that Jesus was born in a mysterious way (as in, he has no earthly father) or do protestants believe that he was a biological child of Joseph? On the sacrament, are you aware that even the protestants have their "sacraments" or whatever it is? I thought it symbolized the last supper and it is in the last supper that Jesus said that "the bread is his body".... or does it mean something totally different with protestants?
otienosmall
#33 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:27:09 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
Wendz wrote:
otienosmall wrote:
I am happy not many Catholics were ready to justify their misguided Baal worship….I could have educated them some more at the expense of being unpopular as Lolest! puts itApplause Applause Applause Applause


Well, i do not know much of the history of religions.... and i know there are some things i can not explain in catholicism, but dude, if Mary and Jesus were creations of catholic, don't the protestants also believe these same individuals exist or at least existed.... and by the way, Muslims also believe in the mystery birth of Jesus? Are you also saying that the protestants do not believe that Jesus was born in a mysterious way (as in, he has no earthly father) or do protestants believe that he was a biological child of Joseph? On the sacrament, are you aware that even the protestants have their "sacraments" or whatever it is? I thought it symbolized the last supper and it is in the last supper that Jesus said that "the bread is his body".... or does it mean something totally different with protestants?


I must also admit not to know much on matter religious. @Wendz and Mukiha; When one ceases to be a Catholic, he does not automatically become Protestant; you can decide not to be anything…..I just got myself a King James and use it as a guide to ‘righteous’ living. In this part of the world, a country of over 120M pple, 90% don’t believe in anything, and I can attest its one of the safest place on Earth. You don’t even bother to lock the door of your house or remove your car key from the ignition, leave your wallet somewhere in a public place and days later you get it intact everybody try to do as good as possible. In Kenya on the hand over 90% of us claim to be believers; Catholics, Protestants, Muslims etc yet our heinous acts can shock the devil himself!!!
There is no empirical proof on Jesus' existence. I however believe Jesus Christ is real It’s just a belief…I also believe he was the Son of God born by Mary through the power of the Holy Spirit. After the divine birth Mary and Joseph lived a normal life and brought fourth other children; brothers and sisters of Jesus. God’s plan may not have been to glorify Mary to the extent the Catholics do. Jesus was probably to be an example of what righteous living entails and a light to be exemplified by all human.
YesuWangu
#34 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:00:06 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588

Have you not known, have you not heard? Protestantism is dead! Its finished, kaput, kabisa! And there is none but the Society of Jesus to thank for that.

Look, all the 'prostestants' are falling over themselves, some in a most comical fashion, trooping back to mater ekklesia.

sample:
a) Anglicans have remodeled their church in London to be like the one in Rome.
b) Lutherans have offered copious apologies for Martin Luthers' less-than-polite indiscretions.
c) etc

So there is no protestant church, save one 'sect' (for that is what it is called nowadays) in the true sense of the word 'protestant'. And that 'sect' is the final loose end left for the Society of Jesus to tie up. More on that later.

So it is hardly surprising that there is no difference between 'protestants' and Catholics. There should be not, after all, 'we define that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff holds the primacy over the whole world.' The Most Holy Councils. Vol 3 col 1167.

Anyway, back to Opus Dei, that lady is a prime example of what good Catholics should be. After internalising the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola, all Catholics should be exactly like that, serving the Successor of Peter, perinde ac cadavre . In the manner of a corpse.

Those who mentioned 'brainwashing' or lack of brains thereof, were on to something they were not even aware of.

If one is a catholic and has not got to that stage, then one is obviously failing in his faith. Maybe one should attend the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome if Strathmore university is not hacking it so that one can '.. serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the cross and to serve the lord alone and the church his spouse, under the Roman pontiff, the vicar of christ on earth' - Apostolic Letter Exposcit Debitum 21 July 1550.


Robinhood
#35 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:15:55 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
YesuWangu wrote:

Have you not known, have you not heard? Protestantism is dead! Its finished, kaput, kabisa! And there is none but the Society of Jesus to thank for that.

Look, all the 'prostestants' are falling over themselves, some in a most comical fashion, trooping back to mater ekklesia.

sample:
a) Anglicans have remodeled their church in London to be like the one in Rome.
b) Lutherans have offered copious apologies for Martin Luthers' less-than-polite indiscretions.
c) etc

So there is no protestant church, save one 'sect' (for that is what it is called nowadays) in the true sense of the word 'protestant'. And that 'sect' is the final loose end left for the Society of Jesus to tie up. More on that later.

So it is hardly surprising that there is no difference between 'protestants' and Catholics. There should be not, after all, 'we define that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff holds the primacy over the whole world.' The Most Holy Councils. Vol 3 col 1167.

Anyway, back to Opus Dei, that lady is a prime example of what good Catholics should be. After internalising the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola, all Catholics should be exactly like that, serving the Successor of Peter, perinde ac cadavre . In the manner of a corpse.

Those who mentioned 'brainwashing' or lack of brains thereof, were on to something they were not even aware of.

If one is a catholic and has not got to that stage, then one is obviously failing in his faith. Maybe one should attend the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome if Strathmore university is not hacking it so that one can '.. serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the cross and to serve the lord alone and the church his spouse, under the Roman pontiff, the vicar of christ on earth' - Apostolic Letter Exposcit Debitum 21 July 1550.




Wewe @YW, you lose me somewhere. What has Jesuits got to do with this? And which 'sect' is this you refer to?
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
vinii
#36 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:22:31 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 2,057
Robinhood wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:

Have you not known, have you not heard? Protestantism is dead! Its finished, kaput, kabisa! And there is none but the Society of Jesus to thank for that.

Look, all the 'prostestants' are falling over themselves, some in a most comical fashion, trooping back to mater ekklesia.

sample:
a) Anglicans have remodeled their church in London to be like the one in Rome.
b) Lutherans have offered copious apologies for Martin Luthers' less-than-polite indiscretions.
c) etc

So there is no protestant church, save one 'sect' (for that is what it is called nowadays) in the true sense of the word 'protestant'. And that 'sect' is the final loose end left for the Society of Jesus to tie up. More on that later.

So it is hardly surprising that there is no difference between 'protestants' and Catholics. There should be not, after all, 'we define that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff holds the primacy over the whole world.' The Most Holy Councils. Vol 3 col 1167.

Anyway, back to Opus Dei, that lady is a prime example of what good Catholics should be. After internalising the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola, all Catholics should be exactly like that, serving the Successor of Peter, perinde ac cadavre . In the manner of a corpse.

Those who mentioned 'brainwashing' or lack of brains thereof, were on to something they were not even aware of.

If one is a catholic and has not got to that stage, then one is obviously failing in his faith. Maybe one should attend the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome if Strathmore university is not hacking it so that one can '.. serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the cross and to serve the lord alone and the church his spouse, under the Roman pontiff, the vicar of christ on earth' - Apostolic Letter Exposcit Debitum 21 July 1550.




Wewe @YW, you lose me somewhere. What has Jesuits got to do with this? And which 'sect' is this you refer to?


am also lost, @yesu wetu, tafadhali fafanuad'oh!
If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
anasazi
#37 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:29:18 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 6/8/2007
Posts: 675
Wow, this is some hot debate. I think the issue is really not whether Catholic or Protestant or Lutheran or Baptist etc. These are just labels given by humans. The question is whether your beliefs are in line with scripture.

Being a Catholic is fine. However I just have the following questions:

1. Scriptural basis of praying through Mary (or other saints)
2. Scriptural basis of infallibility of the pope
3. Scriptural basis of confessing to a father rather than to the Father

I have other questions for other denominations, and it would always be based on this. Perhaps @Insurgent can enlighten me on these questions.
Form is temporary, class is permanent
McReggae
#38 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:41:26 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
anasazi wrote:
Wow, this is some hot debate. I think the issue is really not whether Catholic or Protestant or Lutheran or Baptist etc. These are just labels given by humans. The question is whether your beliefs are in line with scripture.

Being a Catholic is fine. However I just have the following questions:

1. Scriptural basis of praying through Mary (or other saints)
2. Scriptural basis of infallibility of the pope
3. Scriptural basis of confessing to a father rather than to the Father
I have other questions for other denominations, and it would always be based on this. Perhaps @Insurgent can enlighten me on these questions.


John 20:22
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
anasazi
#39 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:00:07 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 6/8/2007
Posts: 675
@McReggae:
John 20:22
New International Version (NIV)
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

Please elaborate on how this ties in with confession.
Form is temporary, class is permanent
McReggae
#40 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:10:17 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
@anasazi,
Should be verse 23: NIV: If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

King james version: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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