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Family claims Opus Dei lured daughter...
Spend.thrift
#21 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:32:20 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 302
mukiha wrote:
Whom between these two do we believe?


liomungai wrote:
she said it very well, it was out of her own free will. she was my classmate for four years and a very intelligent lady and her desire to belong led her to opus dei - we all have to appreciate their good work especially in education.
Being at Strathmore I got to attend many sessions at Mbagathi and nobody forced me to join them and I never became a member. I have many friends who are members and it takes special characters...



Cardinal wrote:
Do not underestimate the pressure that non opus dei members get from opus dei members, especially in institutions like strathmore that stand for opus dei.

Opus dei apply aggressive recruiting strategies to get new members who are then brainwashed to believe that they have a calling.

There are centers that do this,e.g fanusi, mbagathi and keri center in strathmore, where young students are invited to attend barbecues, excursions,e.t.c without knowing that they are slowly being recruited.

Opus dei isn't a bad organization at all, it has good people in it.

Regarding this girl,well she is over 18, her wishes should be respected but she shouldn't be under any coercion to stay at Fanusi whilst her parents wants to see her regularly as their only daughter and first born.





@ Mukiha, how can you brainwash a 25 year old or any other adult for that matter? If anything, it means there was no brain in the first place.

NO catholic institution uses coersion be it the monsteries in Bratislava, hospitals, the Seminaries in Africa or the catholic schools in Kenya. How many of us have been to St. Mary's School, Kianda, precius blood, CUEA and were forced to become catholic or Opus dei? I bet none.

But there are cases of poor people who join priesthood or may want to join prelatures like Opus dei as an escape route from poverty. The church has formation strategies to ensure they detect these although not fool proof. Other join priesthood because their engines (Antonovs or cessna's if you like) are not running or ladies who join or wish to join sisterhood because of traumatic backgrounds (child abuse, rape e.t.c) There are many who go to junior seminary - which are normal secondary school - and allowed to exit if they think priesthood is not a calling for them.

In my very honest opinion, the skeptism about Opus dei has something to do with the efficiency and commitment they attach to anything they do and mostly for no apparent gain (just look at the works of the Strathmore Education trust in Kenya)- which is had to understand for many in Kenya and world wide and which fuels something that there is something afoot with this organisation.

But keep talking because in a way you helping to popularise the Opus dei. From controversy rises clarity.
Kwanini
#22 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:28:56 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/28/2009
Posts: 353
Location: Cloud
mungai na cardinal, be at peace and stand firm to defend any faith or lack of it. Thats why i accept the Helicopter comedy as well as the seven virgins waiting for the suicide bombers.

since i am not a member i do not know why men sleep on the floor on a weekly basis, However women sleep on boards laid on mattresses every night.

I also do not know why Men are allowed to smoke but women are forbidden. i hear women can never attend baptisms nor be be bridesmaids.

The secrecy of Opus is compounded by Article 12 of the Statutes of Opus: “(1) no papers or books are to be published as belonging to Opus.” (pg 47).
"For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
lisaox
#23 Posted : Friday, July 22, 2011 6:51:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/4/2010
Posts: 118
I cannot resist saying something. I have two really goods friends who are members of Opus Dei, one of whom is for me the kind of person I'd say has taught me what it is to be thru 'thin' with you in the expression thru thick and thin.
My comments...Let me put it this way. If you have a family, your'r married, have kids etc etc, your family life and the intricate details of your spouse, your kids, what you eat, how you live etc are not and should not be open for all who want to know about these things for its own sake.I'd go so far as saying, between spouses, many things should not even be known by their closest relas.
Now, picture this.
In Opus Dei, and particularly for the kind of member that Sophie is, there are 'family practices' that go with being a member-a member by choice need I add.If part of being a member of this 'Opus Dei' family means she stays in one of the centers, why should her parents or anyone else dictate that she cannot do this if she has chosen to. From what Kwanini says (wherever he got it from) yes i know there are some of such practices. If you are familiar with the lives of some of the Saints in the Church, you would know that mortification-self denial, suffering some or other discomfort for a higher purpose-is soooo not new. Dont just pick on something and ask why pple do it. Do you know the reason women in Opus Dei dont smoke? Do you know why men sleep on the floor once in a while. You wouldn't, its not your family.
Let me say that the fact that someone else doesnt agree with how i run my house, that my kids eat ugali daily, that they are in bed by 10pm, that I inform my husband when and if am arriving home late, that we've got a mortgage on our house that we're super struggling to repay etc, doesnt mean you should storm my house and make me run it the way you run yours. As long as there is nothing illegal going on in my house, please feel free to mind your own business. If I teach my kids my religion and the way it should be lived, or i share with my spouse what i consider is the proper the right way to live our lives, it is actually no one else's business. If you want to say 'Opus Dei shouldnt force its members to sleep on boards, to fast during Lent, to....'blahblah then maybe you need to tell us here on Wazua the way you run your hao, and am certain you will get an uproar about what people think is 'right' and what others think is 'wrong' about what we'l conclude to be your crazy house.
Now, about Sophies folks goign to court and the works, i'd just say it is as much as you'd expect from a parent-they think they're saving their 'kid' from a 'bad spouse'. Wrong on both accounts-kid and bad spouse. And even assuming they'r not wrong on the second account, the fact is she is an adult makes her run the risk anyway of choosing a bad spouse... Ask majority of women in Kenya!
Bottom line-you'd be surprised how 'strange' other people's homes are if you lived with them for 2 days.And anyway, in this country of freedom of religion, this is ridiculous as there is indeed nothing illegal about a person choosing what religion to belong to and how to practice that religion and in a way that doesnt infringe on others freedoms and is not illegal. Obviously it is another story if it can be proved that the chick is insane, but come on, that sounds like something the folks added to get court orders.
otienosmall
#24 Posted : Saturday, July 23, 2011 11:26:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
Welcome to the world of mystery; when you talk of Catholism it’s not just Opus Dei that it’s shrouded with mystery. Catholism itself is one big lie. I was once a catholic and having wondered why we do this and that, I decided to do a little research on the church and what I discovered made me wonder. Many good people are caught up in this false doctrine. Their intention is well meaning, but they were deceived by the “sleight of men”. These men like most who are deceived, believe what they believe because they were raised up in a particular religion. Majority of the Catholics know nothing of what’s going on. Deception of faith is not new in any case it is as old as mankind. For instance, in the book of genesis focus on the story of Cush-grandson of Noah, architect of Tower of Babel. Semiramis-wife of Cush, Queen of Babylon, mother of Nimrod and Tammuz. Nimrod-son and husband of Semiramis, builder of Babylon. Nimrod developed astrology, and laid the foundations for black and white witchcraft. Shem (Cush's great uncle, Noah's son, and a righteous man), appalled by his nephew's evil deeds, killed Nimrod. Before his death, Nimrod married and impregnated his mother Semiramis. After Nimrod was slain, Semiramis convinced the people of Babylon that Nimrod was a god (the sun god Baal), and that she was a goddess (the Queen of Heaven). ‘Note today the Mary of the catholic church is called the queen of heaven’. However, God's condemned the Queen of Heaven (Jer 7:18, 44:17-19, 44:25). Semiramis developed the Satanic religion of Baal worship, including confession (for blackmail and public fear), secret societies (prefiguring Masonry, Mormonism, Jesuits, and the Illuminati), and the idea that she, as the religious leader, was the only medium to God (prefiguring the Pope). Idols appeared featuring mother Semiramis and baby Nimrod (prefiguring the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus); her symbol was the moon (Isis), and Nimrod's was the sun (Horus, Baal, Sol). Semiramis promoted baby sacrifices and celibacy for priests, foreshadowing Roman Catholicism. Semiramis bore another child (by her son Nimrod, while claiming she was a virgin) named Tammuz, who she maintained was the reincarnation of Nimrod (Baal) (Genesis 3:15) the promised seed of the Woman. This was the foundation of the virgin mother with child archetype that Satan used to corrupt many world religions.
Tammuz was later killed and then Ishtar-Semiramis said that he had become part of the sun three days later, as arising from the death and becoming a god. Tammuz, in the Babylonian religion, is the son of god. Tammuz rose into the sky in the clouds, and thus the pagan priests of Babylonian commenced his worship through astrology (Genesis 3:15.). From Babylon this worship of the Mother and the Child spread to the four corners of the earth. In Egypt, Semiramis became Isis, and Nimrod became Horus (as a child) and Osiris as an adult (the pyramid eye of Freemasonry is the "eye of Osiris"). Sun worship dominated Egypt. Egyptian priests practiced "transubstantiation", claiming to be able to transfer the sun god Osiris into a circular wafer. In rituals prefiguring Catholic Mass, the faithful then ate the "body" of their god to nourish their souls. Transubstantiation is currently an accepted practice in the Roman Catholic and is defined in their Liturgy Dictionary p. 624 as; "That teaching of the Church which signifies the conversion or complete change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christ's Body and Blood." See also the catechism of the Catholic Church; “1373 and 1377 – he (Christ) is present…most especially in the Eucharistic species.” “1413 – By the consecration the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ is brought about. Under the consecrated species of bread and wine Christ himself, living and glorious, is present in a true, real and substantial manner: his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity”- declaimed by the council of Trent: DS 1640:1651. The letters IHS on the sun-shaped wafers stood for Isis, Horus, Seb (you will see these in all Roman Catholics churches just visit any, ask a catholic what they mean and you see they have no idea).
After Christ's death and resurrection, Satan, using Gnostics in Alexandria, Egypt, corrupted the Biblical scriptures, playing down the deity of Jesus and adding the Apocrypha. As the Roman Empire was falling, Constantine claimed the throne. Constantine then took over the Roman government and issued the Edict of Milan, a decree of tolerance for Christians, "baptized" his troops, and presided as the first Summus Pontifex (the official title of the Pope). The events that revived pagan worship occurred mostly in the third century. Constantine and the council of Nicaea became more implicated in high political decisions of Europe and controlling all military matters. His policy was to find a formula on which the largest possible number could agree and be compelled under him. He was the architect of the current Roman Catholic mass. Constantine ordered Eusebius, the Bishop of Caesarea, to have fifty Bibles assembled. Although true Christians had assembled the correct Word of God in Antioch, Syria, Eusebius, he chose the corrupted Alexandrian texts from Egypt, which had been altered by the Gnostic scholar Origen under Satan's guidance. These Bibles were the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church. The Vatican later created the Latin Vulgate from the original fifty, and all other versions were outlawed. Ever noticed that Catholics do not use the normal bible? In Kenya they use the African bible which is the corrupted version. Many areas are changed including the Ten Commandments. For instance, the line reading ‘thou shall not make yourself grave images …..’ is deleted. Instead the 9th is split into two to maintain the ten.
Roman Catholicism transferred Baal worship into an already corrupted Christianity. The icon of the virgin mother and child with halos (representing the sun), Mary as the queen of heaven, confessions, wafer worship, transubstantiation, and priests as exclusive mediators of God were all derived from the Satanic Babylonian religion. Roman Catholicism became a mixture of witchcraft, Judaism, paganism, and perverted Christianity. Witches thrived and were ordained by the Vatican. Meanwhile, true Christians spread the word that the Vatican was the Whore of Babylon (of the Book of Revelation). Rome was outraged, and staged the Holy Inquisition, torturing and murdering "heretics" to eliminate both Christians and Jews, and to fill the coffers of the church.
The Opus Dei, Jesuits order and others were started to fight a Jihad aimed at curbing the spread of true Christianity. The Vatican was shaken as Protestantism spreads rapidly through Europe. In order to stamp out the spiritual rebellion, Pope Paul III ordered Ignatius de Loyola to found the Order of Jesuits, which would act as the intelligentsia and secret militia of the Vatican. Loyola had already founded the occult Illuminati, which he then placed under the umbrella of the Vatican. The secret satanic organization later became the most important branch of the Jesuit order, controlling the world economy, international banking, military forces, witchcraft, and the world religions. Jesuits ("the militia of the popes") used witchcraft, meditation (trances), hypnosis, and speaking in tongues to infiltrate and destroy the Bible-believing Protestant church. To this day, the Superior General of the Jesuits, "the Black Pope", is the mysterious man behind the Pope; it is he who has the ultimate power in the Vatican. The Jesuits helped develop many cults: Freemasons, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and many others, to serve the interests of the Vatican. They staged campaigns to rid Europe of Bible-believing Christians, first in France, then in England (by secretly trying to substitute the corrupted Alexandrian Bible for the English translation). The bait and switch plot failed, as King James successfully translated the Word of God (the Antioch manuscripts) into his English version-to this day the only uncorrupted text. In the modern world, the Vatican is responsible for all Satanic Bible versions based on the corrupted Alexandrian Gnostic manuscripts.
So Baal worship (Sun god religion of ancient Babylon) in the guise of Christianity prevailed. The communion wafer of Roman Catholic mass ("wafer god", "death cookie") is based on the Egyptian ritual of transubstantiation, in which the temple priests would magically transform the sun-shaped wafers into the "body" of Horus, and the worshippers would then "eat" their sun god (derived from Baal). Today's Catholic wafers are imprinted with the letters IHS, which stands for Isis, Horus and Seb; the Egyptian gods. The crucifix was created by Semiramis, in honor of her son Tammuz, and is a symbol of death and the occult. "Behind the crucifix are strong demonic forces giving out tremendous power, as depicted in vampire movies". Mary worship, and the icon of the virgin with child is derived from the image of Semiramis (the "Queen of Heaven") and her baby Tammuz (Baal), by Nimrod. This archetypal icon can be traced to most world religions, as evidence of Satan's covert religious influence.
Osiris, Isis, Obelisk, Pillars and the Great Sex Act; Many studies of Osiris and Isis takes one back into Freemasonry. There are twin pillars that are so important to Freemasonry’s faith. These are Boaz and Jachin. Their true meaning is as follows; "The two pillars ... represent two imaginary columns, supposed to be placed ... to support the heavens. One is called Boaz, and indicates Osiris, or the sun, the other is called Jachin and designates Isis, they symbolize both the earth and its productions, and the moon. Another name for a four-sided pillar is the obelisk. Pillars have always been worshipped as gods. In Egypt, the obelisks stood for the sun god. In fact, in [the Masonic book], 'Numbers: Their Occult Power and Mystic Virtues', you find that the lingam (the male sex organ) was an upright pillar. The Sun was to be regarded as the male generative power of nature. The Sun God was certainly the generator of life, light and heat, the male principle, and this was symbolically represented by the Phallus the most frequent illustration was of a pillar set up in the center of a circle."
* The Sun God is the male shaft -- the phallus -- and is represented by an obelisk. Osiris is the Sun God
* The Universal Mother is the female, represented by the circle. Isis is this Mother figure.
* To represent the Great Sex Act between Osiris and Isis, you place the phallic obelisk within the middle of the circle! The results are the crops of the fields in Nature and the Divine Child in theology!
In Satanism, the result of this Great Sex Act between Osiris and Isis is the continual birth of the Divine Child, Horus! Thus, you can see why Roman Catholicism has the phallic obelisk sitting in the middle of the circle -- otherwise known as the 8-Fold Path To Enlightenment -- in the midst of St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City, In the mind of the Adepts of the Roman Catholic Mysteries, Osiris and Isis are permanently having sex in St. Peter's Basilica! Since theology is the only matter in which the Vatican is interested, the Divine Child is symbolically represented as being born from the Great Sex Act by the Sun God and the Universal Mother. In Roman Catholic Mysteries, the roles of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the Divine Child, are as follows:
* Osiris - Sun God - The Pope
* Isis - Universal Mother, Virgin Mother -- Virgin Mary
* Horus -- Divine Child -- "Jesus"
The result is the continual birth of the Divine Child just as this pagan illustration demonstrates! Since the Roman Catholic Mass continually sacrifices "Jesus" on the Cross anew, it is logical he would have to be continually reborn! You see, in every Mass, Jesus is mystically slain; in order to gain another mystic sacrifice, the Adepts of this Satanic system have to create a mystical way in which they can continually give birth to another "Jesus", so they can slay him in a future Mass! This thinking is not our way of thinking, but it is the way Satanists think. In order to comprehend why a Celibate-driven mystic church has a Satanic symbol of the Great Sex Act sitting in St. Peter's Basilica, you have to understand how they think. In St. Peter's Basilica, you have the two elements required:
* Osiris - Sun God - The Pope - Symbolized by the obelisk
* Isis - Universal Mother, Virgin Mother -- Virgin Mary - Symbolized by the Circle, the "8-Fold Path of Enlightenment"
Closer home visit the Holy Family Basilica and appreciate resemblance of the same act. In the center of the square in front of the church in a tall pillar which to an ignorant eye it houses the church bell. The positioning is in such a way that past noon when the sun is headed west the pillar casts its shadow directly into the church through the main door. I think you don’t need further help to relate this to the described act.
lisaox
#25 Posted : Saturday, July 23, 2011 1:04:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/4/2010
Posts: 118
otienosmall wrote:
Welcome to the world of mystery; when you talk of Catholism it’s not just Opus Dei that it’s shrouded with mystery. Catholism itself is one big lie. I was once a catholic and having wondered why we do this and that, I decided to do a little research on the church and what I discovered made me wonder. Many good people are caught up in this false doctrine. Their intention is well meaning, but they were deceived by the “sleight of men”. These men like most who are deceived, believe what they believe because they were raised up in a particular religion. Majority of the Catholics know nothing of what’s going on. Deception of faith is not new in any case it is as old as mankind. For instance, in the book of genesis focus on the story of Cush-grandson of Noah, architect of Tower of Babel. Semiramis-wife of Cush, Queen of Babylon, mother of Nimrod and Tammuz. Nimrod-son and husband of Semiramis, builder of Babylon. Nimrod developed astrology, and laid the foundations for black and white witchcraft. Shem (Cush's great uncle, Noah's son, and a righteous man), appalled by his nephew's evil deeds, killed Nimrod. Before his death, Nimrod married and impregnated his mother Semiramis. After Nimrod was slain, Semiramis convinced the people of Babylon that Nimrod was a god (the sun god Baal), and that she was a goddess (the Queen of Heaven). ‘Note today the Mary of the catholic church is called the queen of heaven’. However, God's condemned the Queen of Heaven (Jer 7:18, 44:17-19, 44:25). Semiramis developed the Satanic religion of Baal worship, including confession (for blackmail and public fear), secret societies (prefiguring Masonry, Mormonism, Jesuits, and the Illuminati), and the idea that she, as the religious leader, was the only medium to God (prefiguring the Pope). Idols appeared featuring mother Semiramis and baby Nimrod (prefiguring the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus); her symbol was the moon (Isis), and Nimrod's was the sun (Horus, Baal, Sol). Semiramis promoted baby sacrifices and celibacy for priests, foreshadowing Roman Catholicism. Semiramis bore another child (by her son Nimrod, while claiming she was a virgin) named Tammuz, who she maintained was the reincarnation of Nimrod (Baal) (Genesis 3:15) the promised seed of the Woman. This was the foundation of the virgin mother with child archetype that Satan used to corrupt many world religions.
Tammuz was later killed and then Ishtar-Semiramis said that he had become part of the sun three days later, as arising from the death and becoming a god. Tammuz, in the Babylonian religion, is the son of god. Tammuz rose into the sky in the clouds, and thus the pagan priests of Babylonian commenced his worship through astrology (Genesis 3:15.). From Babylon this worship of the Mother and the Child spread to the four corners of the earth. In Egypt, Semiramis became Isis, and Nimrod became Horus (as a child) and Osiris as an adult (the pyramid eye of Freemasonry is the "eye of Osiris"). Sun worship dominated Egypt. Egyptian priests practiced "transubstantiation", claiming to be able to transfer the sun god Osiris into a circular wafer. In rituals prefiguring Catholic Mass, the faithful then ate the "body" of their god to nourish their souls. Transubstantiation is currently an accepted practice in the Roman Catholic and is defined in their Liturgy Dictionary p. 624 as; "That teaching of the Church which signifies the conversion or complete change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christ's Body and Blood." See also the catechism of the Catholic Church; “1373 and 1377 – he (Christ) is present…most especially in the Eucharistic species.” “1413 – By the consecration the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ is brought about. Under the consecrated species of bread and wine Christ himself, living and glorious, is present in a true, real and substantial manner: his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity”- declaimed by the council of Trent: DS 1640:1651. The letters IHS on the sun-shaped wafers stood for Isis, Horus, Seb (you will see these in all Roman Catholics churches just visit any, ask a catholic what they mean and you see they have no idea).
After Christ's death and resurrection, Satan, using Gnostics in Alexandria, Egypt, corrupted the Biblical scriptures, playing down the deity of Jesus and adding the Apocrypha. As the Roman Empire was falling, Constantine claimed the throne. Constantine then took over the Roman government and issued the Edict of Milan, a decree of tolerance for Christians, "baptized" his troops, and presided as the first Summus Pontifex (the official title of the Pope). The events that revived pagan worship occurred mostly in the third century. Constantine and the council of Nicaea became more implicated in high political decisions of Europe and controlling all military matters. His policy was to find a formula on which the largest possible number could agree and be compelled under him. He was the architect of the current Roman Catholic mass. Constantine ordered Eusebius, the Bishop of Caesarea, to have fifty Bibles assembled. Although true Christians had assembled the correct Word of God in Antioch, Syria, Eusebius, he chose the corrupted Alexandrian texts from Egypt, which had been altered by the Gnostic scholar Origen under Satan's guidance. These Bibles were the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church. The Vatican later created the Latin Vulgate from the original fifty, and all other versions were outlawed. Ever noticed that Catholics do not use the normal bible? In Kenya they use the African bible which is the corrupted version. Many areas are changed including the Ten Commandments. For instance, the line reading ‘thou shall not make yourself grave images …..’ is deleted. Instead the 9th is split into two to maintain the ten.
Roman Catholicism transferred Baal worship into an already corrupted Christianity. The icon of the virgin mother and child with halos (representing the sun), Mary as the queen of heaven, confessions, wafer worship, transubstantiation, and priests as exclusive mediators of God were all derived from the Satanic Babylonian religion. Roman Catholicism became a mixture of witchcraft, Judaism, paganism, and perverted Christianity. Witches thrived and were ordained by the Vatican. Meanwhile, true Christians spread the word that the Vatican was the Whore of Babylon (of the Book of Revelation). Rome was outraged, and staged the Holy Inquisition, torturing and murdering "heretics" to eliminate both Christians and Jews, and to fill the coffers of the church.
The Opus Dei, Jesuits order and others were started to fight a Jihad aimed at curbing the spread of true Christianity. The Vatican was shaken as Protestantism spreads rapidly through Europe. In order to stamp out the spiritual rebellion, Pope Paul III ordered Ignatius de Loyola to found the Order of Jesuits, which would act as the intelligentsia and secret militia of the Vatican. Loyola had already founded the occult Illuminati, which he then placed under the umbrella of the Vatican. The secret satanic organization later became the most important branch of the Jesuit order, controlling the world economy, international banking, military forces, witchcraft, and the world religions. Jesuits ("the militia of the popes") used witchcraft, meditation (trances), hypnosis, and speaking in tongues to infiltrate and destroy the Bible-believing Protestant church. To this day, the Superior General of the Jesuits, "the Black Pope", is the mysterious man behind the Pope; it is he who has the ultimate power in the Vatican. The Jesuits helped develop many cults: Freemasons, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and many others, to serve the interests of the Vatican. They staged campaigns to rid Europe of Bible-believing Christians, first in France, then in England (by secretly trying to substitute the corrupted Alexandrian Bible for the English translation). The bait and switch plot failed, as King James successfully translated the Word of God (the Antioch manuscripts) into his English version-to this day the only uncorrupted text. In the modern world, the Vatican is responsible for all Satanic Bible versions based on the corrupted Alexandrian Gnostic manuscripts.
So Baal worship (Sun god religion of ancient Babylon) in the guise of Christianity prevailed. The communion wafer of Roman Catholic mass ("wafer god", "death cookie") is based on the Egyptian ritual of transubstantiation, in which the temple priests would magically transform the sun-shaped wafers into the "body" of Horus, and the worshippers would then "eat" their sun god (derived from Baal). Today's Catholic wafers are imprinted with the letters IHS, which stands for Isis, Horus and Seb; the Egyptian gods. The crucifix was created by Semiramis, in honor of her son Tammuz, and is a symbol of death and the occult. "Behind the crucifix are strong demonic forces giving out tremendous power, as depicted in vampire movies". Mary worship, and the icon of the virgin with child is derived from the image of Semiramis (the "Queen of Heaven") and her baby Tammuz (Baal), by Nimrod. This archetypal icon can be traced to most world religions, as evidence of Satan's covert religious influence.
Osiris, Isis, Obelisk, Pillars and the Great Sex Act; Many studies of Osiris and Isis takes one back into Freemasonry. There are twin pillars that are so important to Freemasonry’s faith. These are Boaz and Jachin. Their true meaning is as follows; "The two pillars ... represent two imaginary columns, supposed to be placed ... to support the heavens. One is called Boaz, and indicates Osiris, or the sun, the other is called Jachin and designates Isis, they symbolize both the earth and its productions, and the moon. Another name for a four-sided pillar is the obelisk. Pillars have always been worshipped as gods. In Egypt, the obelisks stood for the sun god. In fact, in [the Masonic book], 'Numbers: Their Occult Power and Mystic Virtues', you find that the lingam (the male sex organ) was an upright pillar. The Sun was to be regarded as the male generative power of nature. The Sun God was certainly the generator of life, light and heat, the male principle, and this was symbolically represented by the Phallus the most frequent illustration was of a pillar set up in the center of a circle."
* The Sun God is the male shaft -- the phallus -- and is represented by an obelisk. Osiris is the Sun God
* The Universal Mother is the female, represented by the circle. Isis is this Mother figure.
* To represent the Great Sex Act between Osiris and Isis, you place the phallic obelisk within the middle of the circle! The results are the crops of the fields in Nature and the Divine Child in theology!
In Satanism, the result of this Great Sex Act between Osiris and Isis is the continual birth of the Divine Child, Horus! Thus, you can see why Roman Catholicism has the phallic obelisk sitting in the middle of the circle -- otherwise known as the 8-Fold Path To Enlightenment -- in the midst of St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City, In the mind of the Adepts of the Roman Catholic Mysteries, Osiris and Isis are permanently having sex in St. Peter's Basilica! Since theology is the only matter in which the Vatican is interested, the Divine Child is symbolically represented as being born from the Great Sex Act by the Sun God and the Universal Mother. In Roman Catholic Mysteries, the roles of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the Divine Child, are as follows:
* Osiris - Sun God - The Pope
* Isis - Universal Mother, Virgin Mother -- Virgin Mary
* Horus -- Divine Child -- "Jesus"
The result is the continual birth of the Divine Child just as this pagan illustration demonstrates! Since the Roman Catholic Mass continually sacrifices "Jesus" on the Cross anew, it is logical he would have to be continually reborn! You see, in every Mass, Jesus is mystically slain; in order to gain another mystic sacrifice, the Adepts of this Satanic system have to create a mystical way in which they can continually give birth to another "Jesus", so they can slay him in a future Mass! This thinking is not our way of thinking, but it is the way Satanists think. In order to comprehend why a Celibate-driven mystic church has a Satanic symbol of the Great Sex Act sitting in St. Peter's Basilica, you have to understand how they think. In St. Peter's Basilica, you have the two elements required:
* Osiris - Sun God - The Pope - Symbolized by the obelisk
* Isis - Universal Mother, Virgin Mother -- Virgin Mary - Symbolized by the Circle, the "8-Fold Path of Enlightenment"
Closer home visit the Holy Family Basilica and appreciate resemblance of the same act. In the center of the square in front of the church in a tall pillar which to an ignorant eye it houses the church bell. The positioning is in such a way that past noon when the sun is headed west the pillar casts its shadow directly into the church through the main door. I think you don’t need further help to relate this to the described act.

Its amazing how the same thing can be seen in such different ways by people. And when it comes to religion, I usually say it never ceases to amaze me.
Your story otienosmallest about the Jesuits hehehe ni nyokonyoko.I think you were catholic at a very young age, and didnt bother to learn the meaning of the various acts of worship, the various ceremonies, the liturgy etc. Unlike you Otienosmallest, I used to be protestant, then I did a bit of research, a bit more, and now am Cathholic damu, as are now my four siblings after me. No regrets whatsoever. Follow your consience, dont disrespect others' religion, the rest tutaona mbele.
otienosmall
#26 Posted : Saturday, July 23, 2011 6:17:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
lisaox wrote:
otienosmall wrote:
Welcome to the world of mystery; when you talk of Catholism it’s not just Opus Dei that it’s shrouded with mystery. Catholism itself is one big lie. I was once a catholic and having wondered why we do this and that, I decided to do a little research on the church and what I discovered made me wonder. Many good people are caught up in this false doctrine. Their intention is well meaning, but they were deceived by the “sleight of men”. These men like most who are deceived, believe what they believe because they were raised up in a particular religion. Majority of the Catholics know nothing of what’s going on. Deception of faith is not new in any case it is as old as mankind. For instance, in the book of genesis focus on the story of Cush-grandson of Noah, architect of Tower of Babel. Semiramis-wife of Cush, Queen of Babylon, mother of Nimrod and Tammuz. Nimrod-son and husband of Semiramis, builder of Babylon. Nimrod developed astrology, and laid the foundations for black and white witchcraft. Shem (Cush's great uncle, Noah's son, and a righteous man), appalled by his nephew's evil deeds, killed Nimrod. Before his death, Nimrod married and impregnated his mother Semiramis. After Nimrod was slain, Semiramis convinced the people of Babylon that Nimrod was a god (the sun god Baal), and that she was a goddess (the Queen of Heaven). ‘Note today the Mary of the catholic church is called the queen of heaven’. However, God's condemned the Queen of Heaven (Jer 7:18, 44:17-19, 44:25). Semiramis developed the Satanic religion of Baal worship, including confession (for blackmail and public fear), secret societies (prefiguring Masonry, Mormonism, Jesuits, and the Illuminati), and the idea that she, as the religious leader, was the only medium to God (prefiguring the Pope). Idols appeared featuring mother Semiramis and baby Nimrod (prefiguring the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus); her symbol was the moon (Isis), and Nimrod's was the sun (Horus, Baal, Sol). Semiramis promoted baby sacrifices and celibacy for priests, foreshadowing Roman Catholicism. Semiramis bore another child (by her son Nimrod, while claiming she was a virgin) named Tammuz, who she maintained was the reincarnation of Nimrod (Baal) (Genesis 3:15) the promised seed of the Woman. This was the foundation of the virgin mother with child archetype that Satan used to corrupt many world religions.
Tammuz was later killed and then Ishtar-Semiramis said that he had become part of the sun three days later, as arising from the death and becoming a god. Tammuz, in the Babylonian religion, is the son of god. Tammuz rose into the sky in the clouds, and thus the pagan priests of Babylonian commenced his worship through astrology (Genesis 3:15.). From Babylon this worship of the Mother and the Child spread to the four corners of the earth. In Egypt, Semiramis became Isis, and Nimrod became Horus (as a child) and Osiris as an adult (the pyramid eye of Freemasonry is the "eye of Osiris"). Sun worship dominated Egypt. Egyptian priests practiced "transubstantiation", claiming to be able to transfer the sun god Osiris into a circular wafer. In rituals prefiguring Catholic Mass, the faithful then ate the "body" of their god to nourish their souls. Transubstantiation is currently an accepted practice in the Roman Catholic and is defined in their Liturgy Dictionary p. 624 as; "That teaching of the Church which signifies the conversion or complete change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christ's Body and Blood." See also the catechism of the Catholic Church; “1373 and 1377 – he (Christ) is present…most especially in the Eucharistic species.” “1413 – By the consecration the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ is brought about. Under the consecrated species of bread and wine Christ himself, living and glorious, is present in a true, real and substantial manner: his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity”- declaimed by the council of Trent: DS 1640:1651. The letters IHS on the sun-shaped wafers stood for Isis, Horus, Seb (you will see these in all Roman Catholics churches just visit any, ask a catholic what they mean and you see they have no idea).
After Christ's death and resurrection, Satan, using Gnostics in Alexandria, Egypt, corrupted the Biblical scriptures, playing down the deity of Jesus and adding the Apocrypha. As the Roman Empire was falling, Constantine claimed the throne. Constantine then took over the Roman government and issued the Edict of Milan, a decree of tolerance for Christians, "baptized" his troops, and presided as the first Summus Pontifex (the official title of the Pope). The events that revived pagan worship occurred mostly in the third century. Constantine and the council of Nicaea became more implicated in high political decisions of Europe and controlling all military matters. His policy was to find a formula on which the largest possible number could agree and be compelled under him. He was the architect of the current Roman Catholic mass. Constantine ordered Eusebius, the Bishop of Caesarea, to have fifty Bibles assembled. Although true Christians had assembled the correct Word of God in Antioch, Syria, Eusebius, he chose the corrupted Alexandrian texts from Egypt, which had been altered by the Gnostic scholar Origen under Satan's guidance. These Bibles were the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church. The Vatican later created the Latin Vulgate from the original fifty, and all other versions were outlawed. Ever noticed that Catholics do not use the normal bible? In Kenya they use the African bible which is the corrupted version. Many areas are changed including the Ten Commandments. For instance, the line reading ‘thou shall not make yourself grave images …..’ is deleted. Instead the 9th is split into two to maintain the ten.
Roman Catholicism transferred Baal worship into an already corrupted Christianity. The icon of the virgin mother and child with halos (representing the sun), Mary as the queen of heaven, confessions, wafer worship, transubstantiation, and priests as exclusive mediators of God were all derived from the Satanic Babylonian religion. Roman Catholicism became a mixture of witchcraft, Judaism, paganism, and perverted Christianity. Witches thrived and were ordained by the Vatican. Meanwhile, true Christians spread the word that the Vatican was the Whore of Babylon (of the Book of Revelation). Rome was outraged, and staged the Holy Inquisition, torturing and murdering "heretics" to eliminate both Christians and Jews, and to fill the coffers of the church.
The Opus Dei, Jesuits order and others were started to fight a Jihad aimed at curbing the spread of true Christianity. The Vatican was shaken as Protestantism spreads rapidly through Europe. In order to stamp out the spiritual rebellion, Pope Paul III ordered Ignatius de Loyola to found the Order of Jesuits, which would act as the intelligentsia and secret militia of the Vatican. Loyola had already founded the occult Illuminati, which he then placed under the umbrella of the Vatican. The secret satanic organization later became the most important branch of the Jesuit order, controlling the world economy, international banking, military forces, witchcraft, and the world religions. Jesuits ("the militia of the popes") used witchcraft, meditation (trances), hypnosis, and speaking in tongues to infiltrate and destroy the Bible-believing Protestant church. To this day, the Superior General of the Jesuits, "the Black Pope", is the mysterious man behind the Pope; it is he who has the ultimate power in the Vatican. The Jesuits helped develop many cults: Freemasons, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and many others, to serve the interests of the Vatican. They staged campaigns to rid Europe of Bible-believing Christians, first in France, then in England (by secretly trying to substitute the corrupted Alexandrian Bible for the English translation). The bait and switch plot failed, as King James successfully translated the Word of God (the Antioch manuscripts) into his English version-to this day the only uncorrupted text. In the modern world, the Vatican is responsible for all Satanic Bible versions based on the corrupted Alexandrian Gnostic manuscripts.
So Baal worship (Sun god religion of ancient Babylon) in the guise of Christianity prevailed. The communion wafer of Roman Catholic mass ("wafer god", "death cookie") is based on the Egyptian ritual of transubstantiation, in which the temple priests would magically transform the sun-shaped wafers into the "body" of Horus, and the worshippers would then "eat" their sun god (derived from Baal). Today's Catholic wafers are imprinted with the letters IHS, which stands for Isis, Horus and Seb; the Egyptian gods. The crucifix was created by Semiramis, in honor of her son Tammuz, and is a symbol of death and the occult. "Behind the crucifix are strong demonic forces giving out tremendous power, as depicted in vampire movies". Mary worship, and the icon of the virgin with child is derived from the image of Semiramis (the "Queen of Heaven") and her baby Tammuz (Baal), by Nimrod. This archetypal icon can be traced to most world religions, as evidence of Satan's covert religious influence.
Osiris, Isis, Obelisk, Pillars and the Great Sex Act; Many studies of Osiris and Isis takes one back into Freemasonry. There are twin pillars that are so important to Freemasonry’s faith. These are Boaz and Jachin. Their true meaning is as follows; "The two pillars ... represent two imaginary columns, supposed to be placed ... to support the heavens. One is called Boaz, and indicates Osiris, or the sun, the other is called Jachin and designates Isis, they symbolize both the earth and its productions, and the moon. Another name for a four-sided pillar is the obelisk. Pillars have always been worshipped as gods. In Egypt, the obelisks stood for the sun god. In fact, in [the Masonic book], 'Numbers: Their Occult Power and Mystic Virtues', you find that the lingam (the male sex organ) was an upright pillar. The Sun was to be regarded as the male generative power of nature. The Sun God was certainly the generator of life, light and heat, the male principle, and this was symbolically represented by the Phallus the most frequent illustration was of a pillar set up in the center of a circle."
* The Sun God is the male shaft -- the phallus -- and is represented by an obelisk. Osiris is the Sun God
* The Universal Mother is the female, represented by the circle. Isis is this Mother figure.
* To represent the Great Sex Act between Osiris and Isis, you place the phallic obelisk within the middle of the circle! The results are the crops of the fields in Nature and the Divine Child in theology!
In Satanism, the result of this Great Sex Act between Osiris and Isis is the continual birth of the Divine Child, Horus! Thus, you can see why Roman Catholicism has the phallic obelisk sitting in the middle of the circle -- otherwise known as the 8-Fold Path To Enlightenment -- in the midst of St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City, In the mind of the Adepts of the Roman Catholic Mysteries, Osiris and Isis are permanently having sex in St. Peter's Basilica! Since theology is the only matter in which the Vatican is interested, the Divine Child is symbolically represented as being born from the Great Sex Act by the Sun God and the Universal Mother. In Roman Catholic Mysteries, the roles of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the Divine Child, are as follows:
* Osiris - Sun God - The Pope
* Isis - Universal Mother, Virgin Mother -- Virgin Mary
* Horus -- Divine Child -- "Jesus"
The result is the continual birth of the Divine Child just as this pagan illustration demonstrates! Since the Roman Catholic Mass continually sacrifices "Jesus" on the Cross anew, it is logical he would have to be continually reborn! You see, in every Mass, Jesus is mystically slain; in order to gain another mystic sacrifice, the Adepts of this Satanic system have to create a mystical way in which they can continually give birth to another "Jesus", so they can slay him in a future Mass! This thinking is not our way of thinking, but it is the way Satanists think. In order to comprehend why a Celibate-driven mystic church has a Satanic symbol of the Great Sex Act sitting in St. Peter's Basilica, you have to understand how they think. In St. Peter's Basilica, you have the two elements required:
* Osiris - Sun God - The Pope - Symbolized by the obelisk
* Isis - Universal Mother, Virgin Mother -- Virgin Mary - Symbolized by the Circle, the "8-Fold Path of Enlightenment"
Closer home visit the Holy Family Basilica and appreciate resemblance of the same act. In the center of the square in front of the church in a tall pillar which to an ignorant eye it houses the church bell. The positioning is in such a way that past noon when the sun is headed west the pillar casts its shadow directly into the church through the main door. I think you don’t need further help to relate this to the described act.

Its amazing how the same thing can be seen in such different ways by people. And when it comes to religion, I usually say it never ceases to amaze me.
Your story otienosmallest about the Jesuits hehehe ni nyokonyoko.I think you were catholic at a very young age, and didnt bother to learn the meaning of the various acts of worship, the various ceremonies, the liturgy etc. Unlike you Otienosmallest, I used to be protestant, then I did a bit of research, a bit more, and now am Cathholic damu, as are now my four siblings after me. No regrets whatsoever. Follow your consience, dont disrespect others' religion, the rest tutaona mbele.


Well lisaox whatever I said could be nyokonyoko as you put it but you will agree with me that it’s not something I made up. Its all documented history just check it out. When you look at the Jesuits/Superior General of the Society of Jesus for instance there is enormous literature on their lives right from the very first one; Ignatius of Loyola (April 19, 1541-July 31, 1556) to the current BLACK POPE Adolfo Nicolás (January 19, 2008-to date) currently the most powerful figure in the Catholic church (living in Spain). So its not the same thing being seen different is just a matter of asking yourself why is the church teaching this yet the Holy Bible says a different thing? It’s called man made doctrine…..why would the church teach that when you die you go to ‘purgatory’ then those living can do penance for you to be forgiven and finally enter heaven? It’s a lie just read your bible!!!! Why would they tell us that Mary ascended to heaven like Christ ‘the Assumption of Mary’ which is not in the Bible. The Catholic church in Umoja is named after this lie. Where does the Bible say that Mary was born devoid of the original sin….the doctrine of the ‘Immaculate Conception of Mary???’ its all lies upon lies…do your research don’t just follow blindly!!
Lolest!
#27 Posted : Saturday, July 23, 2011 8:50:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
When did this thread get this hot? I wanted to keep away but its too tempting! At the risk of being unpopular, I admit @otieno has some ualid points esp on the 10 commandments and claims of Marys deity. On the latter, the bible records Mary together with other apostles as they worship Jesus-they did not worship Jesus through Mary, they worshipped Jesus with Mary.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
the sage
#28 Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 9:21:55 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
Shak
#29 Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 2:09:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
Indeed a very hot topic but we should not shy away from it tho from my experience any discussion on the matter generates major disagreement. Anyway to reiterate what was said know the history and background behind your beliefs. Don't follow blindly.. Personally i left the catholic faith many years ago because a lot of it's practices didn't make sense to me and still don't to this day
otienosmall
#30 Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 2:14:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
I am happy not many Catholics were ready to justify their misguided Baal worship….I could have educated them some more at the expense of being unpopular as Lolest! puts itApplause Applause Applause Applause
mukiha
#31 Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 2:46:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
I get intimidated by loooong posts. So I will admit that I have not read lisao'x 648-word monologue, nor otienosmall's 2,182-word thesis in full. But in a nutshell, the two posts sound like a "mine is bigger that yours" argument.

Otienosmall claims to have been a catholic-turned-protestant while lisaox is a protestant-turned-catholic. The two will never agree and any further discussion is a waste of time!

Back to the topic of this thread: do the Opus Dei "force" people to join them? I would agree with @Spend.thrift: "how can you brainwash a 25 year old or any other adult for that matter? If anything, it means there was no brain in the first place."
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Wendz
#32 Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 4:13:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
otienosmall wrote:
I am happy not many Catholics were ready to justify their misguided Baal worship….I could have educated them some more at the expense of being unpopular as Lolest! puts itApplause Applause Applause Applause


Well, i do not know much of the history of religions.... and i know there are some things i can not explain in catholicism, but dude, if Mary and Jesus were creations of catholic, don't the protestants also believe these same individuals exist or at least existed.... and by the way, Muslims also believe in the mystery birth of Jesus? Are you also saying that the protestants do not believe that Jesus was born in a mysterious way (as in, he has no earthly father) or do protestants believe that he was a biological child of Joseph? On the sacrament, are you aware that even the protestants have their "sacraments" or whatever it is? I thought it symbolized the last supper and it is in the last supper that Jesus said that "the bread is his body".... or does it mean something totally different with protestants?
otienosmall
#33 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:27:09 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
Wendz wrote:
otienosmall wrote:
I am happy not many Catholics were ready to justify their misguided Baal worship….I could have educated them some more at the expense of being unpopular as Lolest! puts itApplause Applause Applause Applause


Well, i do not know much of the history of religions.... and i know there are some things i can not explain in catholicism, but dude, if Mary and Jesus were creations of catholic, don't the protestants also believe these same individuals exist or at least existed.... and by the way, Muslims also believe in the mystery birth of Jesus? Are you also saying that the protestants do not believe that Jesus was born in a mysterious way (as in, he has no earthly father) or do protestants believe that he was a biological child of Joseph? On the sacrament, are you aware that even the protestants have their "sacraments" or whatever it is? I thought it symbolized the last supper and it is in the last supper that Jesus said that "the bread is his body".... or does it mean something totally different with protestants?


I must also admit not to know much on matter religious. @Wendz and Mukiha; When one ceases to be a Catholic, he does not automatically become Protestant; you can decide not to be anything…..I just got myself a King James and use it as a guide to ‘righteous’ living. In this part of the world, a country of over 120M pple, 90% don’t believe in anything, and I can attest its one of the safest place on Earth. You don’t even bother to lock the door of your house or remove your car key from the ignition, leave your wallet somewhere in a public place and days later you get it intact everybody try to do as good as possible. In Kenya on the hand over 90% of us claim to be believers; Catholics, Protestants, Muslims etc yet our heinous acts can shock the devil himself!!!
There is no empirical proof on Jesus' existence. I however believe Jesus Christ is real It’s just a belief…I also believe he was the Son of God born by Mary through the power of the Holy Spirit. After the divine birth Mary and Joseph lived a normal life and brought fourth other children; brothers and sisters of Jesus. God’s plan may not have been to glorify Mary to the extent the Catholics do. Jesus was probably to be an example of what righteous living entails and a light to be exemplified by all human.
YesuWangu
#34 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:00:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588

Have you not known, have you not heard? Protestantism is dead! Its finished, kaput, kabisa! And there is none but the Society of Jesus to thank for that.

Look, all the 'prostestants' are falling over themselves, some in a most comical fashion, trooping back to mater ekklesia.

sample:
a) Anglicans have remodeled their church in London to be like the one in Rome.
b) Lutherans have offered copious apologies for Martin Luthers' less-than-polite indiscretions.
c) etc

So there is no protestant church, save one 'sect' (for that is what it is called nowadays) in the true sense of the word 'protestant'. And that 'sect' is the final loose end left for the Society of Jesus to tie up. More on that later.

So it is hardly surprising that there is no difference between 'protestants' and Catholics. There should be not, after all, 'we define that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff holds the primacy over the whole world.' The Most Holy Councils. Vol 3 col 1167.

Anyway, back to Opus Dei, that lady is a prime example of what good Catholics should be. After internalising the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola, all Catholics should be exactly like that, serving the Successor of Peter, perinde ac cadavre . In the manner of a corpse.

Those who mentioned 'brainwashing' or lack of brains thereof, were on to something they were not even aware of.

If one is a catholic and has not got to that stage, then one is obviously failing in his faith. Maybe one should attend the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome if Strathmore university is not hacking it so that one can '.. serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the cross and to serve the lord alone and the church his spouse, under the Roman pontiff, the vicar of christ on earth' - Apostolic Letter Exposcit Debitum 21 July 1550.


Robinhood
#35 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:15:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
YesuWangu wrote:

Have you not known, have you not heard? Protestantism is dead! Its finished, kaput, kabisa! And there is none but the Society of Jesus to thank for that.

Look, all the 'prostestants' are falling over themselves, some in a most comical fashion, trooping back to mater ekklesia.

sample:
a) Anglicans have remodeled their church in London to be like the one in Rome.
b) Lutherans have offered copious apologies for Martin Luthers' less-than-polite indiscretions.
c) etc

So there is no protestant church, save one 'sect' (for that is what it is called nowadays) in the true sense of the word 'protestant'. And that 'sect' is the final loose end left for the Society of Jesus to tie up. More on that later.

So it is hardly surprising that there is no difference between 'protestants' and Catholics. There should be not, after all, 'we define that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff holds the primacy over the whole world.' The Most Holy Councils. Vol 3 col 1167.

Anyway, back to Opus Dei, that lady is a prime example of what good Catholics should be. After internalising the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola, all Catholics should be exactly like that, serving the Successor of Peter, perinde ac cadavre . In the manner of a corpse.

Those who mentioned 'brainwashing' or lack of brains thereof, were on to something they were not even aware of.

If one is a catholic and has not got to that stage, then one is obviously failing in his faith. Maybe one should attend the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome if Strathmore university is not hacking it so that one can '.. serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the cross and to serve the lord alone and the church his spouse, under the Roman pontiff, the vicar of christ on earth' - Apostolic Letter Exposcit Debitum 21 July 1550.




Wewe @YW, you lose me somewhere. What has Jesuits got to do with this? And which 'sect' is this you refer to?
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
vinii
#36 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:22:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 2,057
Robinhood wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:

Have you not known, have you not heard? Protestantism is dead! Its finished, kaput, kabisa! And there is none but the Society of Jesus to thank for that.

Look, all the 'prostestants' are falling over themselves, some in a most comical fashion, trooping back to mater ekklesia.

sample:
a) Anglicans have remodeled their church in London to be like the one in Rome.
b) Lutherans have offered copious apologies for Martin Luthers' less-than-polite indiscretions.
c) etc

So there is no protestant church, save one 'sect' (for that is what it is called nowadays) in the true sense of the word 'protestant'. And that 'sect' is the final loose end left for the Society of Jesus to tie up. More on that later.

So it is hardly surprising that there is no difference between 'protestants' and Catholics. There should be not, after all, 'we define that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff holds the primacy over the whole world.' The Most Holy Councils. Vol 3 col 1167.

Anyway, back to Opus Dei, that lady is a prime example of what good Catholics should be. After internalising the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola, all Catholics should be exactly like that, serving the Successor of Peter, perinde ac cadavre . In the manner of a corpse.

Those who mentioned 'brainwashing' or lack of brains thereof, were on to something they were not even aware of.

If one is a catholic and has not got to that stage, then one is obviously failing in his faith. Maybe one should attend the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome if Strathmore university is not hacking it so that one can '.. serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the cross and to serve the lord alone and the church his spouse, under the Roman pontiff, the vicar of christ on earth' - Apostolic Letter Exposcit Debitum 21 July 1550.




Wewe @YW, you lose me somewhere. What has Jesuits got to do with this? And which 'sect' is this you refer to?


am also lost, @yesu wetu, tafadhali fafanuad'oh!
If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
anasazi
#37 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:29:18 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2007
Posts: 675
Wow, this is some hot debate. I think the issue is really not whether Catholic or Protestant or Lutheran or Baptist etc. These are just labels given by humans. The question is whether your beliefs are in line with scripture.

Being a Catholic is fine. However I just have the following questions:

1. Scriptural basis of praying through Mary (or other saints)
2. Scriptural basis of infallibility of the pope
3. Scriptural basis of confessing to a father rather than to the Father

I have other questions for other denominations, and it would always be based on this. Perhaps @Insurgent can enlighten me on these questions.
Form is temporary, class is permanent
McReggae
#38 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:41:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
anasazi wrote:
Wow, this is some hot debate. I think the issue is really not whether Catholic or Protestant or Lutheran or Baptist etc. These are just labels given by humans. The question is whether your beliefs are in line with scripture.

Being a Catholic is fine. However I just have the following questions:

1. Scriptural basis of praying through Mary (or other saints)
2. Scriptural basis of infallibility of the pope
3. Scriptural basis of confessing to a father rather than to the Father
I have other questions for other denominations, and it would always be based on this. Perhaps @Insurgent can enlighten me on these questions.


John 20:22
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
anasazi
#39 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:00:07 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2007
Posts: 675
@McReggae:
John 20:22
New International Version (NIV)
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

Please elaborate on how this ties in with confession.
Form is temporary, class is permanent
McReggae
#40 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:10:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
@anasazi,
Should be verse 23: NIV: If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

King james version: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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