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Banker' Cheques - A complete waste of money!!!
mukiha
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:12:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Banker's cheques are completely unnecessary in Kenya! They are not any better than personal cheques... in fact, they could be worse! A bank manager once told me never to accept them; according to him there is more fraud involving bankers' cheques than personal ones.

Think about it: why is it that these cheques also go through the same clearing system as personal cheques? You still have to wait 4 working days before you can get the money.

The manager in question advised that people should simply accept either personal cheques or no cheques at all!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Wa_ithaka
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:24:29 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
Has anybody ever been conned via a bankers draft because I'm not aware. They are usually seen as more secure because they are actually recorded with the bank and its easy to verify.
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
mukiha
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:27:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Wa_ithaka wrote:
Has anybody ever been conned via a bankers draft because I'm not aware. They are usually seen as more secure because they are actually recorded with the bank and its easy to verify.


I have only been conned once in my life... and it was with a banker's cheque...125k went "just like that". And that's when the bank manager gave me the above advice.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Robinhood
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:28:46 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
You can only be conned if you do not bother to call the issuing bank to confirm that they have the cheque in their books and that it is payable to you.
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
mukiha
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:29:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
BTW; the cheque in question had been stolen from KCB{!}, how was I to know that it had been stolen?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#6 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:34:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Robinhood wrote:
You can only be conned if you do not bother to call the issuing bank to confirm that they have the cheque in their books and that it is payable to you.


OK; My mistake. I dind't do that. And come think of it, the con-man was clever enough to bring the cheque on a Saturday afternoon (banks had closed) and he collected the goods that I was selling...

from that incident, I stopped asking people to give banker's cheques. Just pay me with a personal one, wait 4 working days and collect the goods. If you are in a hurry, RTGS the money to my account - my bank is good enough to call me as soon as they get the money (I don't even have to call them).
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
jasonhill
#7 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:38:47 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Max out Sh70,000/day Mpesa limit, or make it a practice to verify, like Robinhood said, and then wait until the check clears (it should be faster with check truncation), or use Escrow services.

And Cash is still king. And If you are transacting millions of shillings cash, hire security to protect the "DVD players" or whatever you call the boxes of cash (don't say it's cash) while you deliver them.

Can you hire off-duty cops as security in Kenya? That's what we do in the US when moving high-value items, so that the security is armed (to the teeth), so if anything goes bad, it's protected by the veil of law enforcement.

Best,

Hill
mukiha
#8 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:41:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@jason; this was long before Mpesa was born, but yes, that is another secure way of payment.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
dunkang
#9 Posted : Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:18:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,824
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
@jason, hire a cop?????? Polisi ndio jangili No. 1 kenya hiiiiiiii.

I believe cash is prone to be stolen, reason been, haina picha yako! But with MPESA, U R SORTED. I always use MPESA here in this desert since hata ukiiba simu, hauna PIN No. 70K X 4 = 280K, @Mukiha, 4 days, u can move 280k safely and easily and cheaply!
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

Intelligentsia
#10 Posted : Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:51:12 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
Robinhood wrote:
You can only be conned if you do not bother to call the issuing bank to confirm that they have the cheque in their books and that it is payable to you.


No, I once worked as a bank branch manager and know a number of cases where cheques have been actually been 'confirmed with the bank,'goods released only for the cheque to turn out fraudulent! Sad Pray
Business folks don't trust bankers cheques that's why they insist they have to go through the clearing cycle like personal cheques. Even some banks paying their customers against other bank's personal cheques will insist this cheque goes through the entire clearing process of T+3 days before paying out.
Note that unscrupulous bank staff working in cahoots with the fraudster can 'confirm' a bank cheque!
But most frightening is the level of criminal sophistication where you actually place a call to the bank to confirm a cheque is genuine and somehow the fraudsters (who are expecting you to call the bank to confirm as is the usual case) 'pull your call/line' and pretending they re bank staffe, proceed to confirm the 'genuiness' of the cheque only for you to release goods that you will never see or be paid for ever. There are few incidents of this so far in Kenya but many have been quietly observed in Ug.

ADVICE: Use RTGS. If you are being paid cash beware the seller (esp if unknown to you) could offload counterfeit notes on you, so better go with the seller to your bank and he deposits in your account or he brings you the deposit slip (you can call the manager to confirm it). The bank's cash counting machines will detect fakes.

However, the cheque truncation project which should go live nationally in Kenya I think in July 2011 will very significantly reduce no. of clearing days as well as the instances of cheque fraud.

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