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The long bear
guru267
#41 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:01:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
hisah wrote:

Time to accumulate cheap bluechips especially industrials and banks for long term investors all the way to 2012. Then @guru will get her 5 year (15yr is too ambitious) bull run.


@hisah after 2012 kenya will enter into a super cycle that can lasy even longer than 15 years which has not been uncommon of other countries developing in the past albeit with minor corrections along the way
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
craig
#42 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:16:48 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/28/2011
Posts: 27
its a bear alright, and i actually hope it holds for a little longer...
hisah
#43 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:58:29 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Quote:
Last month’s sales by foreign investors edged close to sales made in June 2008 at the onset of the global financial crisis, when foreigners made sales worth Sh6.72 billion against purchases of Sh2.69 billion.

Ksh depreciated by an average of 10, 14 and 17% against the dollar, sterling pound and euro since the beginning of the year.


Inflation at double digit per cent too...

http://www.businessdaily.../-/evv9k0z/-/index.html

@guru - a 15yr rally in Africa with the 'stable' politiking...
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
the deal
#44 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2011 9:57:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
@Hisah you are right...Banking executives must be sweating like hell...the weak Sh and double digit inflation is messing them up bad..interest rates will keep rising...i see a huge spike in NPL's...banks exposed to the low segment of the market and those not into regions will come off worse...the economy wont grow not a recession Mr Hisah
guru267
#45 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:08:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
@Hisah you are right...Banking executives must be sweating like hell...the weak Sh and double digit inflation is messing them up bad..interest rates will keep rising...i see a huge spike in NPL's...banks exposed to the low segment of the market and those not into regions will come off worse...the economy wont grow not a recession Mr Hisah


@the deal The recession will come from the West not internally.. Cant you already feel the breeze??
It will be a classic stagflation.. Soaring commodities and super unemployment will be charecteristics
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
the deal
#46 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:51:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
@Guru this Hisah guy is a genious..the devaluation of the Shilling can force East Africa into a recession...i love history Asian financial crisis of 97 were precipitated by weak currencies..uhmm Kenya needs guys like him at CBK...@Hisah do you have a linkedin profile?
guru267
#47 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:20:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
@Guru this Hisah guy is a genious..the devaluation of the Shilling can force East Africa into a recession...i love history Asian financial crisis of 97 were precipitated by weak currencies..uhmm Kenya needs guys like him at CBK...@Hisah do you have a linkedin profile?


@the deal enough with the sarcasm.. The threat is real..

A weakening currency only benefits net exporter countries but countries like kenya that are huge net importers will absolutely hammered if the situation does not change soon..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
slykat
#48 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:50:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 359
I feel some of you guys are contradicting yourselves; we all agree that the economic problems u aptly capture "are deep" and double digit, and it's not a blip, and no workable solution is on the table yet. With the same mouth, we talk of a recovery in 2012. Yes months!

How so fast when there is no anti-dote on the table? Consider that we haven't even reached the bottom of the food shortage yet, let alone the currency and inflation issue. Plus that inflation increases significantly every election year thanks to increased money in circulation. 2012 may be worse or sustained, especially if the short rains fail too. Is months too optimistic or am I too pessimistic?
guru267
#49 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2011 12:44:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
slykat wrote:
I feel some of you guys are contradicting yourselves; we all agree that the economic problems u aptly capture "are deep" and double digit, and it's not a blip, and no workable solution is on the table yet. With the same mouth, we talk of a recovery in 2012. Yes months!

How so fast when there is no anti-dote on the table? Consider that we haven't even reached the bottom of the food shortage yet, let alone the currency and inflation issue. Plus that inflation increases significantly every election year thanks to increased money in circulation. 2012 may be worse or sustained, especially if the short rains fail too. Is months too optimistic or am I too pessimistic?


@skylat the european & US crisis might cause our stock market to fall but not the economies.
I think the african economies will be resilient to crises and hence this will lead to a recovery in the stock markets when african growth becomes evident...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
guru267
#50 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2011 1:12:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
erifloss wrote:
The best bets as of now are:
1. Banks especially ones that deal with SMEs & Agriculturals & that saw a leap in their forex income in q1. Also ones whose recoveries ratio was or is up (Equity Bank).
2. TPS, due to weakening of the shilling & strengthening of the rand, Kenya is now deemed a cheaper tourist destination as compared to SA one of our strongest competitors.


Diamond trust is a bank that has been focusing on the SME sector more than any other bank and is backed by the IFC for growth and it is all currently paying off tremendously
TPS is definitely on the right path as you have already mentioned..

The funny thing is that JUBILEE HOLDINGS owns a substantial part and has a seat on the board of directors of both the above mentioned companies.
So why not buy jubilee to get exposure to both firms plus much more it has to offer??

Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Cde Monomotapa
#51 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2011 4:41:03 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Hahaha...all this chicken licken sky is falling. As if this is the 1st time our currency has lost value. Kes.was @ 60-63 for the longest time ever before it slipped all the way to 80 after 07/08 elections. But as soon as we were through with effx of post election & drought in 2010 the economy was humming despite a 20 bob loss by Ke.s
Cde Monomotapa
#52 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2011 7:49:12 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Btw..i am enjoying the drizzles. This should see kitchen recurrents like veggies, potato, tomato, milk ease. I think there will be lower food inflation in H2. And also the ease in diesel & kerosene prices c/o fiscal intervention should contribute further somewhat.
guru267
#53 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2011 8:03:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Hahaha...all this chicken licken sky is falling. As if this is the 1st time our currency has lost value. Kes.was @ 60-63 for the longest time ever before it slipped all the way to 80 after 07/08 elections. But as soon as we were through with effx of post election & drought in 2010 the economy was humming despite a 20 bob loss by Ke.s


@Cde please make necessary preperations... The week before lehman brothers collapse analysts, investors and economists were grossly downplaying the problem all the way to the end..

Any default or restructuring in europe will make the lehman collapse look like childs play
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Cde Monomotapa
#54 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2011 8:13:17 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
guru267 wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Hahaha...all this chicken licken sky is falling. As if this is the 1st time our currency has lost value. Kes.was @ 60-63 for the longest time ever before it slipped all the way to 80 after 07/08 elections. But as soon as we were through with effx of post election & drought in 2010 the economy was humming despite a 20 bob loss by Ke.s


@Cde please make necessary preperations... The week before lehman brothers collapse analysts, investors and economists were grossly downplaying the problem all the way to the end..

Any default or restructuring in europe will make the lehman collapse look like childs play

If the concern is about foreigners pulling out of the NSE then I am listening. But then again..they will not have learnt that they are better off here as it were in 08/09 where as much as the NSE tanked..our banks still posted double digit growth in earnings. Me I am Kenyan with Pan-african interests, hapa ndo nakulia.
Cde Monomotapa
#55 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2011 8:22:38 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Infact, let them go bust. The oil markets have been over valued for far too long & with no fundamental basis whatsoever!
hisah
#56 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2011 11:57:54 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Infact, let them go bust. The oil markets have been over valued for far too long & with no fundamental basis whatsoever!

Thus the term global ponzinomics.

Glad to see that you'd not graduate from econ school since you question the system smile

You might end up like me - a school vigilante. Going to school just to question the system & make the lecturers hate you with a passion smile
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
Cde Monomotapa
#57 Posted : Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:44:07 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
hisah wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Infact, let them go bust. The oil markets have been over valued for far too long & with no fundamental basis whatsoever!

Thus the term global ponzinomics.

Glad to see that you'd not graduate from econ school since you question the system smile

You might end up like me - a school vigilante. Going to school just to question the system & make the lecturers hate you with a passion smile

Ati mkts r efficient. Pu!!
QW25071985
#58 Posted : Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:03:09 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2011
Posts: 946
craig wrote:
its a bear alright, and i actually hope it holds for a little longer...


i second, third,forth,fifth,sixth that !!!!!!!!!!!
the deal
#59 Posted : Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:45:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
QW25071985 wrote:
craig wrote:
its a bear alright, and i actually hope it holds for a little longer...


i second, third,forth,fifth,sixth that !!!!!!!!!!!

A bear is never good...you might think buying KQ at 24 in a bear is a coup...only to see it fall to 15...never wish for pain.
erifloss
#60 Posted : Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:54:08 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 514
Location: Nairobi
Lets look at this hypothetically. After listening to Ndung'u yesterday, i started thinking.
1.If the greek PM fails the no confidence vote today it means they can't pass any austerity measures within the 12 days remaining & most definately will default & go broke leaving most European & American banks with an exposure of about $2 trillion in Greece, Portugal & Spain.
2. With the above scenario everybody is dropping Euro dominated assets for the 'weakening' dollar & going to any market as long as its not European. Now if Kenya's currency is taken as weaker to the dollar & investors are looking for economies to park their cash at, Kenya becomes a destination only if political noise goes down & the shilling stabilizes at around 95.
3. Looking at this situation you'll realize that most of these 'investors' right now don't want to park their cash in Emerging & Frontier markets with strong currencies that can be easily affected by Greece's insolvency but in markets that they can easily control the dynamics within.
As Kenya if this is played right & with most of international multinational financial institutions within fully exposed in Europe, they might or are seriously looking at Africa & who says it can't be Kenya. Stanchart has opened its regional hq here which speaks volumes & as Ndung'u said yesterday we control inflation the rest of the chips will fall in place.
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
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