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Is the church becoming too elitist?
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@mtu biz, I havent said that activity makes you right before God-though we do fall for this fallacy too often. I know I need to do the work of the Lord but more importantly I need to be close to the Lord of the work I am doing. Fellowship is important. The Bible urges us not to neglect the meeting together of believers. This is where church comes in.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Lolest! wrote:@mtu biz, I havent said that activity makes you right before God-though we do fall for this fallacy too often. I know I need to do the work of the Lord but more importantly I need to be close to the Lord of the work I am doing. Fellowship is important. The Bible urges us not to neglect the meeting together of believers. This is where church comes in. what cheekiness is this? Ati 'more importantly i need to be close to the lord of the work i am doing'. This new doctrine i dont know where it is from. Man, you only have to 'believe in him' according to john 3:16.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi
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My issue with the Church is their hypocrisy. Just the other day, they gathered at Uhuru Park to worship men some who have stolen from this great nation since the day they left university, others have been accused of aiding and abetting the worst crimes committed against Kenyans since independence. Many a church leader will stand up to defend some corrupt idiot just because the same has attended a harambee where he gave a Ksh1m of his stolen money towards the church. Lets not even get started on illegal land allocations. The bible says "for all have sinned and fallen short of the Lord". Mutunga has not said he is against family values (I am sure church leaders would rather he had 3/4 wives than divorce any)... The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 3/1/2011 Posts: 48
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After listening to a week of everyone especially the Church casting aspersions on Dr Mutunga,it was a relief to find the man is a normal human being with fears,failings and a man who is brave enough to admit he is spiritually thirsty.Being a Christian myself i was disappointed to find Muslims were more accommodating of Mutunga than we were. i actually hope i get more than Christians in heaven or wherever it is people go when they die otherwise it will be a pretty boring place . For so long Christianity has taught we are right and everyone else who believes or sees the world differently is wrong.We want to have people who believe the same way we do,dress as we do,talk like we do,understand the world like we do yet that is so impossible.If God wanted things this way am sure He would have found a way to create us all the same and saved himself the heartache of having to watch His creation bludgeon and fight each other in the name of religion. In my opinion the Church has adopted a puritanical approach to the whole morality issue and yet it is dealing with human beings,with failings,with faults who mess up ,lapse in judgment just like everyone of us.They need to cut Mutunga some lack and let the man show us what he can do,how many people holding public office have ever uttered the word "national duty" as a reason for seeking any post even that of being President?.How many would leave the comfy NGO world for a job in public service devoid of the perks and allowances even our own Ministers only dream of? Dr Mutunga is a man after my own heart and i wish him all the best. “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”
― Anne Lamott
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Wa_ithaka wrote:My issue with the Church is their hypocrisy. Just the other day, they gathered at Uhuru Park to worship men some who have stolen from this great nation since the day they left university, others have been accused of aiding and abetting the worst crimes committed against Kenyans since independence.
Many a church leader will stand up to defend some corrupt idiot just because the same has attended a harambee where he gave a Ksh1m of his stolen money towards the church.
Lets not even get started on illegal land allocations.
The bible says "for all have sinned and fallen short of the Lord". Mutunga has not said he is against family values (I am sure church leaders would rather he had 3/4 wives than divorce any)... WEWE Wacha matusi! remember that there were many kinds of NOs, even mutahi ngunyi had a NO. This matter is not about the Church, the church is not running for CJ. My friend this is what is known as Vetting, any skeleton will be exposed. If the Church did not ask these questions - who would? Civil society? You? Kila mtu anasema what is in his/her heart. Don't gag the Clergy! we trust the civil society to expose other misdeeds as for 'morals' and 'uprightness' those belong are the SECOND ESTATE. on the 1 million shilling's matter - the whole church was not a recipient to these funds. and stop quoting the bible selectively... do you know a selective reader like you can claim that the bible says "..there is no God.." ? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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masukuma wrote:Wa_ithaka wrote:My issue with the Church is their hypocrisy. Just the other day, they gathered at Uhuru Park to worship men some who have stolen from this great nation since the day they left university, others have been accused of aiding and abetting the worst crimes committed against Kenyans since independence.
Many a church leader will stand up to defend some corrupt idiot just because the same has attended a harambee where he gave a Ksh1m of his stolen money towards the church.
Lets not even get started on illegal land allocations.
The bible says "for all have sinned and fallen short of the Lord". Mutunga has not said he is against family values (I am sure church leaders would rather he had 3/4 wives than divorce any)... WEWE Wacha matusi! remember that there were many kinds of NOs, even mutahi ngunyi had a NO. This matter is not about the Church, the church is not running for CJ. My friend this is what is known as Vetting, any skeleton will be exposed. If the Church did not ask these questions - who would? Civil society? You? Kila mtu anasema what is in his/her heart. Don't gag the Clergy! we trust the civil society to expose other misdeeds as for 'morals' and 'uprightness' those belong are the SECOND ESTATE. on the 1 million shilling's matter - the whole church was not a recipient to these funds. and stop quoting the bible selectively... do you know a selective reader like you can claim that the bible says "..there is no God.." ? This is the very point! The church is not running for CJ! but some of these clergy, having grown fat, smooth and supple from sadaka they get every sunday, now opt to fight against flesh and blood, when not seeking for the same. But they maybe exerting their energies in the right place on this one, towards grown adults and in a battle of wits. Spare the children!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@ Yw, I dont want to be a martha. The main thing for me is that intimacy with God. But faith without works, James tells us, is dead.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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The church raises issues of morality, they are condemned. If they dont, they are condemned too.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi
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Thukuma wiki- I was referring to the event that was recently held at Uhuru Park to welcome our heroes from the Hague. Lolest-the issue is that kanisa leaders do so selectively. Its actually well known that some of our kanisa leaders are fighting some politicians' battles i.e. acting as proxies. FACT. I'm a God-fearing christian by the way... The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Lolest! wrote:@ Yw, I dont want to be a martha. The main thing for me is that intimacy with God. But faith without works, James tells us, is dead. What kind of works? Audibly raising issues of morality all over the place except in the nunneries and monasteries?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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YesuWangu wrote:Lolest! wrote:@ Yw, I dont want to be a martha. The main thing for me is that intimacy with God. But faith without works, James tells us, is dead. What kind of works? Audibly raising issues of morality all over the place except in the nunneries and monasteries? Sasa issue za morality in monasteries zimekuwa kazi yangu?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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No not you. Sorry, i meant the clergy. Lol. Sorry about that. Ok?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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When a public funded forum is called to discuss the kind of CJ and DJC we should have, why turn it into a forum to discuss the church For heavens sake if as a country we wish to discuss the church we may as well call for a meeting for that purpose. Mutunga is good for the Job Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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YesuWangu wrote:No not you. Sorry, i meant the clergy. Lol. Sorry about that. Ok? cava
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/30/2010 Posts: 176
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B.Timer wrote:When a public funded forum is called to discuss the kind of CJ and DJC we should have, why turn it into a forum to discuss the church
In a public forum, you expect all kinds of submissions. Don't condemn the church for making its submissions. Go and make yours as well.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/30/2010 Posts: 176
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BTW, were any Akorino, Catholic, Anglican, Legio maria pastors/priests part of the 'church' that made the submissions? Just curious.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Dia wrote:BTW, were any Akorino, Catholic, Anglican, Legio maria pastors/priests part of the 'church' that made the submissions? Just curious. I saw 2 gentlemen, one a catholic and the other a charismatic pentecostal making themselves 'spokesmen' of all christians.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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For ALL have sinned and FALL short of the glory of God. This thread reminds of one time M7 was asked something about UG outgrowing Kenya or somenthing like that. he said' I am not bothered to declare the tallest pigmy!" Here we are mere mortals arguing over who is the tallest moral pigmy' ... ouch! The church leadership, despite its shortcomings ( as we all have) is entitled to its opinion. I do not understand why we equate the church to those guys in leadership! Live and let live guys! I Think Therefore I Am
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Is the church becoming too elitist?
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