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Is the church becoming too elitist?
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YesuWangu
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 5:02:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
i knew it was only a matter of time before this came up. I am strongly for the separation of church from state. I would go further and declare that i would rather have a liberal, who permits all sorts views and lifestyles, including mine, than one who thinks his views and lifestyle is the only view and lifestyle and consequently attempts to impose them on me. Freedom is precious. Especially the freedom to follow ones conscience without fear whatever that conscience is. Those who have been set free will know.
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Burning Spear
#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 5:24:26 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
Lolest! wrote:
I'm not Catholic but I know they do not encourage boot opening. There are crooked priests who do it but they don't do it on behalf of the church!

Maybe they should revise the celibacy rule but that's a different topic.

Don't silence the church, it's their duty to remind us of such things.




You are right here !!

I think the church has a role to play and whats happening (regarding questioning CJ) is actually correct.
The problem with us human beings is to believe and justify that (in what I hear people say )the world is changing and becoming modern in order to approve such behaviours like opening the exhaust tank.

What I would like to tell people is that its true the world is changing but we should remember that the word of God remain the same and its not dependent on certain variables."In the beginning,there was the word and the word was with God and the word was God"

Let us not support the ungodly acts or behaviours so as to be seen as elite or compatible enough to the changing world.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
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Lolest!
#13 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 6:34:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@magigi, whats wrong with phombe? Where in the Bible is it condemned? This is one issue where catholics are right and we protestants are wrong. The sin of drinking beer and wine must have been introduced by the mainstream protestant churches during their revivals. The bible only condemns drunkardness.
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Mtu Biz
#14 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 6:37:20 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
Lolest! wrote:
@magigi, whats wrong with phombe? Where in the Bible is it condemned? This is one issue where catholics are right and we protestants are wrong. The sin of drinking beer and wine must have been introduced by the mainstream protestant churches during their revivals. The bible only condemns drunkardness.



it is not about protestants or catholics or any other groups

The question is .... is your faith... not the faith of your pastor... is YOUR faith in keeping with the teaching of Jesus Christ as revealed in the scriptures.

That is the question.
Sola Scriptura
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Kenyan Kop
#15 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 6:55:57 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/4/2007
Posts: 56
Yesterday was a sad day. CIOC behaved as if the Church was on trial yesterday. They even castigated the church for voting NO, good gracious the last time I checked the voting slip had both YES & NO. I still maintain that Mutunga is not a stable character to hold the position of CJ. One day, I'm certain the Church will tell us, We warned you but you did not heed our call.
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Lolest!
#16 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 8:39:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@mtu biz, I have not been active in church for the past 3years. In this time, i have managed to become more serious in reading the word for myself book by book. I have discovered interesting gems in the word, things that are best seen in personal study. So yes, it is important you need to build on personal faith but you need to be joined to a family of believers where you will help each other grow. Thats my next step.
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Lolest!
#17 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 8:49:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@kenyan kop, I feel disappointed too. Church leaders are condemned before they can say a thing. If truly we are in a democracy, why is everyone else being allowed to give their views except the church? The Civil society is happy and they have their reasons. The church is unhappy and they have their reasons too. Lets hear them out!
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Mtu Biz
#18 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 8:50:15 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
@ Lolest

Church activity is not equal to fellowship do not confuse the two.

Church activity is not what pleases God.

We look at outward appearances, God looks at the heart.

If Christianity was about what we appear to be or do then the pharisees and teachers of the law would have been the champions of the faith.Not former fishermen and tax collectors (kawaida dudes).





Sola Scriptura
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masukuma
#19 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 9:34:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
the church tries to follow a code, they may fail once in a while but that does not make the code wrong! the code is a standard, they preach the standard and themselves work towards the standard. the code does not lose its validity because the preacher does the wrong thing. Asking them not to speak about evil and immorality. their silence does not make evil and immorality go away, their speaking about it does not mean that they are not human and that they struggle with the same issues - it just means that they know its wrong. two wrongs don't make a right and just because a thief tells you theft is wrong does not invalidate his statement - theft is wrong (its not based on who says its bad)
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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B.Timer
#20 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 9:45:59 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
Kenyan Kop wrote:
Yesterday was a sad day. CIOC behaved as if the Church was on trial yesterday. They even castigated the church for voting NO, good gracious the last time I checked the voting slip had both YES & NO. I still maintain that Mutunga is not a stable character to hold the position of CJ. One day, I'm certain the Church will tell us, We warned you but you did not heed our call.


I agree that some members of The Parliamentary commitee conducted the affairs of the day in the most hawkish and undignified manner.
The agenda for the sitting was to prepare for the interogation of the the trio of Mutunga, Baraza and Tobiko.
Introducing diversianary issues of how honest, moral etc some Clergy are supposed to be or not to be is to waste our time and resources.

Stick to the business of the day.

Having said that, it is also important for us to appreciate that the church wanted kina Mutunga interogated over their sexuality, and if or not they encourage the propagation/development of gayism etc etc.
Questions of Mutunga's donning of a stud and its significance were raised too.

Listening to Mutunga today those fears/concerns were adequately addressed as to satisfy... most including myself(as a private citizen).

I found Mutunga to be level headed and not, to use his words " a lose canon".
I believe he will steer the Judiaciary in the right direction.
Dunia ni msongamano..
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