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Is the church becoming too elitist?

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Magigi		#1 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 9:31:28 AM
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/31/2008 Posts: 7,081 Location: Kenya		I wactched yesterdays proceedings on the vetting of the CJ. Just afew observations 1. Jesus did not come for the righteous but to save sinners. He mingled freely with prostitutes, tax collectors etc. Now, does helping homosexuals and lesbians make one one of them? Does carrying out research on gays make one one of them? Who y should spend will get all those girls out of K-Street? Rather than sleep, the clergy should spend their nights preaching to these !!!) 2. One legislator did ask Father Lugonzo why the churh is shouting so much about gays yet among them they have paedophiles and homosexuals, chief among them being father Kizito, who has been unlocking boys’ boots!!! He avoided answering the question by saying the matter is on the hands of the police. 3. A lady Psychologist – Ms Karani (who thinks she is the epitome of purity) almost made Ms Mbarire breakdown in tears when she said that Mutua and Baraza come from dysfunctional families and therefore should not have the jobs. She asked the lady that if her husband left her for one reason or another, whether she should be denied a job because now her family is no longer a family! And she did not have an answer. I think, in my own opinion, there is alot of pretence in the church. And by the way, what is moral and what is not? The Catholics and their priests drink and smoke. For the Protestants smoking and drinking is not permissible and yet the two share a platform to stone gays and lesbians! What are the standards of judging morarilty?
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Ms Mkenya		#2 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 10:04:24 AM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/13/2010 Posts: 869 Location: Nairobi		Magigi wrote: I wactched yesterdays proceedings on the vetting of the CJ. Just afew observations 1. Jesus did not come for the righteous but to save sinners. He mingled freely with prostitutes, tax collectors etc. Now, does helping homosexuals and lesbians make one one of them? Does carrying out research on gays make one one of them? Who y should spend will get all those girls out of K-Street? Rather than sleep, the clergy should spend their nights preaching to these !!!) Jesus however did not condone sin -remember when he chased out the money changers in the temple? It doesn't mean they are holy.. No one is. But if something is wrong, someone has the liberty to say it is, don't you think so? 2. One legislator did ask Father Lugonzo why the churh is shouting so much about gays yet among them they have paedophiles and homosexuals, chief among them being father Kizito, who has been unlocking boys’ boots!!! He avoided answering the question by saying the matter is on the hands of the police. No evidence was found to link Fr. Kizito to these claims. Not now and not last time! DNA was done i thought? Fr. Kizito heads a very 'moneyed' organization and i think that's where all this comes from. 3. A lady Psychologist – Ms Karani (who thinks she is the epitome of purity) almost made Ms Mbarire breakdown in tears when she said that Mutua and Baraza come from dysfunctional families and therefore should not have the jobs. She asked the lady that if her husband left her for one reason or another, whether she should be denied a job because now her family is no longer a family! And she did not have an answer. I do not agree with Ms. Karani either. Anyone can lead. However, the church has the mandate to give direction in moral matters. That's why we listen to the teachings!! @Magigi, I do not have a big problem with Ms. Baraza but with Dr Mutunga as a CJ..I do. I think the thread http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...spx?g=posts&t=12538 had most of the concerns. ....above all, to stand.
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Lolest!		#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:49:16 AM
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma		I find it irritating that some people can attack the church over gayism. Is gayism and sodomy official church doctrine? Just because some in the church are gay and participate in other immoral and crooked ways does not mean that the church supports those acts! It is the height of pride and stubbornness to think that the church should not have an opinion and if it should have, it should be a conformist one.
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Mtu Biz		#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:26:28 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320		Bwana Magigi, You have a valid point. As i read the scriptures, i do not see any attempt by Jesus to institutionalize Christianity, he was continuously castigated by the religious elite of his day for not following the 'traditions of their fathers' e.g the washing of hands, the strict keeping of the sabbath, the fasting and so on. And Jesus in turn continuously exposed the heresy and hypocrisy of the pharisees and teachers of the law. When drawn into a debate that would have him 'declare' a position on paying taxes to Caesar, Jesus answers by asking a question... i paraphrase... "Give me a denarius,(a bob is handed to him) whose image/likeness is on this coin, they answer Caesar, then give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's" Remember Rome was an oppressive regime on the Jewish people. Jesus position on the issue basically was, honor your obligations to the authorities however oppressive BUT also (Give to God what is God's) honor your obligations to God. Why did Jesus add "Give to God what belongs to God" in that context? Basically because just as the image of Caesar was on that coin, we bear the image of God, we should therefore give ourselves to the one we belong to... Back to context: Christianity is not about creating institutions or influence via politics or force.. Jesus once said this to Pilate, that his kingdom was not of this world, and that if it were of this world then his disciples would not have resisted his being arrested. (John 18:36) Who are we then to try and assert our influence via religious institutions and politics? Jesus was once offered 'all the kingdoms of this world' by none other than satan, he declined.... Most if not all of our so called religious leaders would have jumped at the opportunity... Christianity is not about setting up any kind of kingdom on the earth. Why wasn't Jesus birth announced to the Kings, Nobles or religious elite of his day, why to simple lowly shepherds? i digress...... The point is, your work as a Christian is to do 2 things Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, strength. And love your neighbor as yourself. Do this and you stand out like a sore thumb in a world filed with pretense and hypocrisy. If all who call themselves 'Christians' would do this... there would be no need for 'missions' and 'outreach' and related jargon. i digress again... ok enough said for now. Sola Scriptura
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Wendz		#5 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:11:55 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268		A question was posed to the church (and am not condemning the church here).... when the church knows so well of the corrupt, no one talks about them, no one condemns the act of corruption. when the same corrupt go to church, they are given a place at the pulpit, where, majority of the faithfuls have never stepped and wouldn't even be allowed to step because (it is holy) and they take "offerings" acquired in not-so-clean way.... now, who is being hypocritical? (of course it is paraphrased!) I must say it was a hard question.
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Magigi		#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:22:32 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/31/2008 Posts: 7,081 Location: Kenya		...and the CEO of Keroche Industries said she gets invites from the clergy during harambees and I am not saying she has no right to do that. It is is the hypocrisy that is so sickening!!! Why tell people gayism is bad and at night kids in the seminary cant sleep (I am not even talikng about father Kizito) as you move from one room to another...so nauseating!
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Lolest!		#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:29:04 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma		I'm not Catholic but I know they do not encourage boot opening. There are crooked priests who do it but they don't do it on behalf of the church! Maybe they should revise the celibacy rule but that's a different topic. Don't silence the church, it's their duty to remind us of such things.
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Lolest!		#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:32:37 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma		Magigi wrote: ...and the CEO of Keroche Industries said she gets invites from the clergy during harambees and I am not saying she has no right to do that. What is wrong with her being invited?
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jjred		#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 3:00:58 PM
Rank: New-farer Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 63		"Ategemea mwanadamu amelaaniwa"
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Magigi		#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2011 3:51:36 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/31/2008 Posts: 7,081 Location: Kenya		Lolest! wrote: Magigi wrote: ...and the CEO of Keroche Industries said she gets invites from the clergy during harambees and I am not saying she has no right to do that. What is wrong with her being invited? ...pesa ya phombe....
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