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Is Kenya a Failed State
Mr.Tea
#41 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:09:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/4/2008
Posts: 341
Location: Nairobi
Isn't suspect that most of this talk of state failure emanates from the west. The hypocritical aspect of it is that they offer themselves as the standard.I ask,did they wake up one day and found themselves at that stage of development? C'mon give us a break.

Patience Pays in Guaranteed Checks
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wote
#42 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:24:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/18/2007
Posts: 217
@The Real shaft,i want to agree with your obsevations on this matter entirely. The measure of a failed Sate is not whether there are people in that country and can hold an election and/ or so called elections every five years but rather whether institutions in that particular country work.

Do our institutions work and for the benefit of its citizens? well am afraid the answer is rather obvious.

Look at the Judiciary,Police,Universities,Parliament,Health Institutions,Local Authorities the list is endless all rotten inside out,one does not get the picture of a functional state in those institutions.




wote
Mainat
#43 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:26:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
wa P- you didn't answer the question,but thanks for the effort. Note that you don't have to go to moscow to know its freezing in Winter. Ask your folks and they'll be able to give a good comparison.



www.mjengakenya.blogspot.com
Sehemu ndio nyumba
SUSU
#44 Posted : Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:13:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 64
Location: Far East
@Kanobi

Why is it that u have to mention Saudi Arabia everytime u send us ur piece of mind? Have u been there? How is it like? Many Kenyas r working there and are praising the country even saying that Kenya is of no comparison to Saudi.
Mainat
#45 Posted : Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:42:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Imho,there are two things we can look at to see if Kenya is a failed state:


Quality of life. A Kenyan born in 50s may have started life harshly but would easily have gotten a job in the 70s with O-levels. Some have managed two or three different careers. A kenyan born in the 60s would have a gotten a job with O-levels and a degree but would have seen his/her career stall towards the of the 80s. Those Kenyans born in the 70s would have seen career plans (even with degrees) go downhill from early 90s all the way to 2003 when Uchumi started improving kidogo. Those born in the 80s and after require lots of prayers and illicit manouveres to get themslves abroad to even have a chance of getting a job. Life in Kenya of 60s,70s and early 80s was largely crime free,justice was administered fairly quickly,civil service worked,health care was if not free,avaliable. Today? Look at agriculture with exception of dairy farming and holticulture.
Expectations gap: This is the gap between Kenya's potential and what it has achieved. Unlike countless other African countries,Kenya has never (until '08),had a civil war. It inherited probably one of the best infrastructure from a colonialist. It had/s an educated workforce. We were a nation in 1963. There is therefore no excuse for not even having achieved what Singapore or Botswana or India have achieved in a similar amount of time.

Instead of aiming our barbs at those who have called us a failed state,lets examine ourselves critically and work out what needs to be done to get us to the top. Its no good comparing ourselves to Somalia or Uganda. Unless we are aiming to be like them. Please note that failure doesn't mean that this is it for Kenya. It only means that we have a lot more to do to get us to the top.


www.mjengakenya.blogspot.com
Sehemu ndio nyumba
MADE
#46 Posted : Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:51:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/12/2007
Posts: 391
Wikipedia defines failed state as:


The term failed state is often used by political commentators and journalists to describe a state perceived as having failed at some of the basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government. In order to make this definition more precise,the following attributes,proposed by the Fund for Peace,are often used to characterize a failed state:


loss of physical control of its territory,or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein,
erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions,
an inability to provide reasonable public services,and
An inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community.

Common characteristics of a failing state include a central government so weak or ineffective that it has little practical control over much of its territory; non-provision of public services; widespread corruption and criminality; refugees and involuntary movement of populations; and sharp economic decline.

The level of government control required to avoid being considered a failed state varies considerably amongst authorities. Furthermore,the declaration that a state has 'failed' is generally controversial and,when made authoritatively,may carry significant geopolitical consequences.



.......from the above,me now thinks Kenya is a failing state (e.g due to indecision in cabinet,indecision on Migingo )


It's not where yu are,but where yu want to be.
Age is transforming me into an Elder;becoz Admin hasn't made me one.
Djinn
#47 Posted : Wednesday, July 15, 2009 8:27:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@Made...Migingo is too small an issue of territorial integrity to merit us to be called a failing state (did the UK start to become a failing state when they fought with argentina for the falkland islands?). neither is the indecision by cabinet on the tribunal. if we were to quantify issues based on economic and political importance,these would really not amount to enough to tilt the scales.. Instead we are still going ahead with regional integration (see todays BD - EA currency in 3 years time). Uganda still uses our port respectfully and the greater landlocked region. We attend AU and other international meetings where our officials are given due recognition and respect. We assert our sovereignty (which is something that has pissed off the US an UK at times,esp when we almost got weaned off aid and were 100% financing our own budget). Our roads are getting better and better - healthcare is there albeit with some issues,education too. So I disagree even with the title 'failing state'.

The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
Obi 1 Kanobi
#48 Posted : Wednesday, July 15, 2009 8:51:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@SUSU

If you feel I have misrepresented any facts about Saudi Arabia,feel free to factually correct me.

Otherwise I will refer to them whenever I feel its relevant.

And I also detest it as a country because of the hypocrisy that it stands for.


I've noticed the youth in particular coming in to a workplace with a completely outsized notion of their own value and importance... just a thinly-veiled arrogance. May be the credit crunch induced recession is whats needed to remind us all about the value of hard work.... By Anonymous
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
MADE
#49 Posted : Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:58:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/12/2007
Posts: 391
@Djinn- an inch of a sovereign state is never too small an issue. That's why the Prezo usually takes an oath to defend our borders with all might. UK n the Pumas having gone to war over an island clearly indicates how ownership of land matters. The economy generated from Migingo is far more than the stony island.
BTW
the following are increasingly trapped in a cycle of poverty n violence. They're the Top 20 failed states
1. Somalia 6. Iraq 11. Cote D'Ivoire
2. Zimbabwe 7. Afghanistan 12. Haiti
3. Sudan 8. Central African Republic 13. Myanmar
4. Chad 9. Guinea 14. Kenya
5. DRC 10. Pakistan 15. Nigeria

16. Ethiopia
17. N. Korea
18. Yemen
19. Bangladesh
20. East Timor.......22. Uganda

Top ten achievers (opposite of the above)
1. Norway 6. Denmark
2. Finland 7. N. Zealand
3. Sweden 8. Australia
4. Switzerland 9. Netherlands
5. Ireland 10. Austria

any geopolitics from above index?





It's not where yu are,but where yu want to be.
Age is transforming me into an Elder;becoz Admin hasn't made me one.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#50 Posted : Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:37:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@Made

Surely you are not suggesting that we should have gone for an all out war with UG over Migingo without first attempting to arrive at an amicable solution (which is currently being done).

That list of failed states is quite interesting,I wonder from where the author would prefer to make his list,Kenya or Gaza.


I've noticed the youth in particular coming in to a workplace with a completely outsized notion of their own value and importance... just a thinly-veiled arrogance. May be the credit crunch induced recession is whats needed to remind us all about the value of hard work.... By Anonymous
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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