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Jubilee Holdings results FY2010 profit jumps 84 pct
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the deal
#81 Posted : Monday, May 16, 2011 11:28:11 PM
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@Merchant Britak vs JuB one on one its a landslide in favour of Britak...Britak boosts a combined ratio of 65% vs JuB's over 100%..the combined ratio is the main measure used to evaluate how profitable an insurance firm...if its above 100% it shows that the company is paying out(claims) more than its retaining(earned premiums)
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The Merchant
#82 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:50:59 AM
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the deal wrote:
@Merchant Britak vs JuB one on one its a landslide in favour of Britak...Britak boosts a combined ratio of 65% vs JuB's over 100%..the combined ratio is the main measure used to evaluate how profitable an insurance firm...if its above 100% it shows that the company is paying out(claims) more than its retaining(earned premiums)

Oh my!! So Jubilee is losing millions through its insurance business. It seems to be investing very well though. Do you have Jubilee financial statements for like 3 years back? I would like to see whether this underwriting loss is the norm or whether its a one off thing. The statements from their site are quite shallow.Sad I had really fallen in love with this stock and my heart is nearly braeking so I want fool proof proof!!Sad Sad
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The Merchant
#83 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:54:21 AM
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Its sister DTB on the other hand is the new star in the market...
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Aguytrying
#84 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:03:33 PM
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The Merchant wrote:
Its sister DTB on the other hand is the new star in the market...

yeah. Ha ha. This momentum towards book closure is very much welcome. smilesmile.
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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guru267
#85 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:49:39 PM
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jubilees profit growth is sustainable especially since they will have new income streams in 2011...
plus i would not read much into the underwriting loss because it has been making a profit in previous years
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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The Merchant
#86 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 3:39:57 PM
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guru267 wrote:
jubilees profit growth is sustainable especially since they will have new income streams in 2011...
plus i would not read much into the underwriting loss because it has been making a profit in previous years

Aaaah, so it is a one off underwriting loss.smile
What other streams of income in 2011 do you speak of @guru. Illuminate me.
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VituVingiSana
#87 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 9:47:12 PM
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Warren Buffett of Berkshire Hathaway does NOT generally expect underwriting profits [but is happy to have them!] but he wants the cheap float insurance provides...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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youcan'tstopusnow
#88 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:07:14 AM
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deal, did Jubilee make an underwriting profit or loss? guru is talking about an underwriting loss while in your blog you mention "Underwriting profits increased by 42 percent to 523 million shillings in 2010".
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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the deal
#89 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:25:45 AM
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youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
deal, did Jubilee make an underwriting profit or loss? guru is talking about an underwriting loss while in your blog you mention "Underwriting profits increased by 42 percent to 523 million shillings in 2010".

When i did that post i didn't have the results at hand...so i just copy and pasted what reuters said..but yes the Insurance business is no good...just like all micro insurers in Kenya.smile smile
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youcan'tstopusnow
#90 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:27:21 AM
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the deal wrote:
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
deal, did Jubilee make an underwriting profit or loss? guru is talking about an underwriting loss while in your blog you mention "Underwriting profits increased by 42 percent to 523 million shillings in 2010".

When i did that post i didn't have the results at hand...so i just copy and pasted what reuters said..but yes the Insurance business is no good...just like all micro insurers in Kenya.smile smile

What's the exact figure
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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the deal
#91 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:47:15 AM
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youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
the deal wrote:
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
deal, did Jubilee make an underwriting profit or loss? guru is talking about an underwriting loss while in your blog you mention "Underwriting profits increased by 42 percent to 523 million shillings in 2010".

When i did that post i didn't have the results at hand...so i just copy and pasted what reuters said..but yes the Insurance business is no good...just like all micro insurers in Kenya.smile smile

What's the exact figure

Well Net insurance premium revenue were Ksh 5.36B vs claims of Ksh 5.61 B which results in a loss of around Ksh 250 M.
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guru267
#92 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 5:10:24 PM
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youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
deal, did Jubilee make an underwriting profit or loss? guru is talking about an underwriting loss while in your blog you mention "Underwriting profits increased by 42 percent to 523 million shillings in 2010".


@youcant please do not listen to @the deal... He's research seems fllawed...

Jubilee made an undewriting profit growth of 42% to half a billion shillings... (best in the industry)
They then decided to inflate the claims of their life business by 1.5 billion so as to surpress the profits and cushion bad years... ( source AGM)

THERE WAS NO UNDERWRITING LOSS
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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the deal
#93 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 5:53:34 PM
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guru267 wrote:
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
deal, did Jubilee make an underwriting profit or loss? guru is talking about an underwriting loss while in your blog you mention "Underwriting profits increased by 42 percent to 523 million shillings in 2010".


@youcant please do not listen to @the deal... He's research seems fllawed...

Jubilee made an undewriting profit growth of 42% to half a billion shillings... (best in the industry)
They then decided to inflate the claims of their life business by 1.5 billion so as to surpress the profits and cushion bad years... ( source AGM)

THERE WAS NO UNDERWRITING LOSS

@Guru i was just reading their results which they released to the public..the other thing of Inflating their claims i didnt know...is it even legal? if its legal then it was a good move...in fact if you read their income statement fair value of their financial assets increased 4X to Ksh 1.6 B from Ksh 326 something which will not be repeated this year...lets hope what you are saying is true cos year end might tank...thats why u see no fund manager is touching JUB and the price has stagnated...we need more clearity...
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guru267
#94 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 6:38:08 PM
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the deal wrote:
guru267 wrote:
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
deal, did Jubilee make an underwriting profit or loss? guru is talking about an underwriting loss while in your blog you mention "Underwriting profits increased by 42 percent to 523 million shillings in 2010".


@youcant please do not listen to @the deal... He's research seems fllawed...

Jubilee made an undewriting profit growth of 42% to half a billion shillings... (best in the industry)
They then decided to inflate the claims of their life business by 1.5 billion so as to surpress the profits and cushion bad years... ( source AGM)

THERE WAS NO UNDERWRITING LOSS

@Guru i was just reading their results which they released to the public..the other thing of Inflating their claims i didnt know...is it even legal? if its legal then it was a good move...in fact if you read their income statement fair value of their financial assets increased 4X to Ksh 1.6 B from Ksh 326 something which will not be repeated this year...lets hope what you are saying is true cos year end might tank...thats why u see no fund manager is touching JUB and the price has stagnated...we need more clearity...


The CEO expects an EPS of 40bob which is a 20% increase..
He expects jubilee to be the number one insurer in africa in four years..

@the deal let me fill you in on fund manager criteria for investing.
1. Large market cap
2. Sufficient liquidity of shares...

Jubilee meets none of these requirements so it cannot be traded by fund managers despite its superb performance as a matter of policy.

I think it would do one better to enter a company with such phenomenal 75 year record like jubilee before it gains favour...

Oh yeah @the deal the price may have stagnated but ive bee minting cash frm the dividends and bonus issues..
I think im currenntly up 28% in just a year.. Again the best performing insurance stock and one of the best financials on the NSE..

Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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youcan'tstopusnow
#95 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 10:48:27 PM
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guru, number 1 in Africa in 4 years? REALLY? I am sure that there are some South African insurance companies that kick ass!
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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the deal
#96 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 10:55:31 PM
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Hehehe @Guru if Jub was a dude i would be jelous...too much roho...@ycsun PAT for Jub was 1.99 B vs 2.7 B for Britak.
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youcan'tstopusnow
#97 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:35:24 PM
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the deal wrote:
Hehehe @Guru if Jub was a dude i would be jelous...too much roho...@ycsun PAT for Jub was 1.99 B vs 2.7 B for Britak.

deal, where are you getting 1.99 PAT for Jubilee? I am looking at their audited consolidated results for the full year 2010 and they have it as 1,839,124,000
On BRITAK are you going to invest in the IPO? You may experience Safaricom style refundssmile Let's see if they will pull off a CFCIH and shoot up upon listingDrool
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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the deal
#98 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:44:13 PM
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youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
the deal wrote:
Hehehe @Guru if Jub was a dude i would be jelous...too much roho...@ycsun PAT for Jub was 1.99 B vs 2.7 B for Britak.

deal, where are you getting 1.99 PAT for Jubilee? I am looking at their audited consolidated results for the full year 2010 and they have it as 1,839,124,000
On BRITAK are you going to invest in the IPO? You may experience Safaricom style refundssmile Let's see if they will pull off a CFCIH and shoot up upon listingDrool

Pole pole i got mixed up...yes its 1.83 B...i have new info on Britak...my previous analysis was flawed...unless its priced cheap...i would not take part...i will update my blog soon...actually CIC is a good bet.
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youcan'tstopusnow
#99 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:57:51 PM
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deal, BRITAK not a buy anymore? Hmmm. I'm waiting to see what changed your mindsmile
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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the deal
#100 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 6:25:33 AM
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@Guru you were right all along...Jub didnt make any underwriting losses...they just inflated their claims which is quiet acceptable...thus the correct way to evaluate an insurance business is through the balance sheet...thats what Buffet uses...i read his 2004 letter to shareholders...he focuses on 2 key metrics...1. Float and 2. Return on Float.
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