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Buffet's diehards read this
erifloss
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:33:03 AM
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An interesting read. It goes to show that we are all in it for the money no matter what.
www.reuters.com/article/...tt-idUSTRE73O2BH20110425
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
VituVingiSana
#2 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:42:50 AM
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Joined: 1/3/2007
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Location: Nairobi
Nonsense... What WB did was fire the chap...

It is not WB's job to prosecute Sokol, if there was wrongdoing, but the SEC's job...

As Sokol's boss... what WB was fire the guy...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Genghis Khan
#3 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:07:07 AM
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Joined: 8/5/2010
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Location: Nairobi
I believe this is what is called insider trading? How is it defined? Where are the lines drawn?

Sokol, a senior exec. at BH buys $10m - GUILTY?

If Mrs. Smith, a PA to Sokol sees the docs in the office and buys $10k? - GUILTY?

There are rumours going round about the impending acquisition and a disassociated investor takes $1m worth. - NOT GUILTY?

Sokol & Smith have an obligation to stay away while the rumormongers and Co. "participate"?
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
erifloss
#4 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:28:49 AM
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VituVingiSana wrote:
Nonsense... What WB did was fire the chap...

It is not WB's job to prosecute Sokol, if there was wrongdoing, but the SEC's job...

As Sokol's boss... what WB was fire the guy...

But you have to agree that with so many of these problems of late occurring under WB's watch is a big problem.
And remember Sokol mumbled this in a meeting that WB was at, why did he still go for the deal knowing this?
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
VituVingiSana
#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 1:41:37 PM
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Location: Nairobi
erifloss wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Nonsense... What WB did was fire the chap...

It is not WB's job to prosecute Sokol, if there was wrongdoing, but the SEC's job...

As Sokol's boss... what WB was fire the guy...

But you have to agree that with so many of these problems of late occurring under WB's watch is a big problem.
And remember Sokol mumbled this in a meeting that WB was at, why did he still go for the deal knowing this?

1) Erm, what 'other' problems recently? Please do tell us...
2) So, WB going for a good deal coz Sokol 'mumbled' about buying some shares makes it a 'problem'?
[As long as the DEAL was GOOD for Berkshire... just coz Sokol owned/bought shares does not mean WB should not buy it. Not doing a legit good deal would be the problem!]

Kwani, if Sokol hid his share purchases [or the full extent] from his boss does NOT make the deal [purchase of Lubrizol] a bad deal as long as WB did the Due Diligence...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#6 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 12:14:13 AM
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Location: Nairobi
Sokol is in hot soup... You do not deceive WB & get away with it...
http://www.reuters.com/a...pe=nl&feedName=usdai
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
youcan'tstopusnow
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:41:02 PM
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Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
[quote=VituVingiSana]Sokol is in hot soup... You do not deceive WB & get away with it...
http://www.reuters.com/a...e=nl&feedName=usdai[/quote]
Is the deal still good for Berkshire?
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
VituVingiSana
#8 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:48:00 PM
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Joined: 1/3/2007
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Location: Nairobi
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
[quote=VituVingiSana]Sokol is in hot soup... You do not deceive WB & get away with it...
http://www.reuters.com/a...e=nl&feedName=usdai[/quote]
Is the deal still good for Berkshire?


Note: From what I have read, there is NOTHING wrong with the Lubrizol [as a firm/business] but the issue is with the 'insider' trading of the shares...

These are different issues...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
erifloss
#9 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2011 8:23:29 AM
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Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 514
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
erifloss wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Nonsense... What WB did was fire the chap...

It is not WB's job to prosecute Sokol, if there was wrongdoing, but the SEC's job...

As Sokol's boss... what WB was fire the guy...

But you have to agree that with so many of these problems of late occurring under WB's watch is a big problem.
And remember Sokol mumbled this in a meeting that WB was at, why did he still go for the deal knowing this?

1) Erm, what 'other' problems recently? Please do tell us...
2) So, WB going for a good deal coz Sokol 'mumbled' about buying some shares makes it a 'problem'?
[As long as the DEAL was GOOD for Berkshire... just coz Sokol owned/bought shares does not mean WB should not buy it. Not doing a legit good deal would be the problem!]

Kwani, if Sokol hid his share purchases [or the full extent] from his boss does NOT make the deal [purchase of Lubrizol] a bad deal as long as WB did the Due Diligence...

1. Allegations of inflating results of some firms BH owns and actually the SEC won some of the suits. I'm not saying that the father should be blamed for the sins of the son but the father should no better & institute better measures.
2. When WB invested in Goldman Sachs, it actually showed him in the light of giving an ok to 'gamble banking' as opposed to his value based investment strategy.
3. His investment in Moody's one of the rating agencies that rated sub-prime CDO's AAA.
4. I do agree he shouldn't let a good investment pass by coz of his associates but he should know better & ensure disclosure of various interested parties to the investing public. This is actually the reason why some of BH's shareholders are filing suits against it.
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
erifloss
#10 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2011 10:43:16 AM
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Location: Nairobi
This Sokol issue is really eating into WB's credibility.
http://blogs.reuters.com...eaning-up-buffetts-mess/
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
VituVingiSana
#11 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2011 3:39:18 PM
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Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
erifloss wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
erifloss wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Nonsense... What WB did was fire the chap...

It is not WB's job to prosecute Sokol, if there was wrongdoing, but the SEC's job...

As Sokol's boss... what WB was fire the guy...

But you have to agree that with so many of these problems of late occurring under WB's watch is a big problem.
And remember Sokol mumbled this in a meeting that WB was at, why did he still go for the deal knowing this?

1) Erm, what 'other' problems recently? Please do tell us...
2) So, WB going for a good deal coz Sokol 'mumbled' about buying some shares makes it a 'problem'?
[As long as the DEAL was GOOD for Berkshire... just coz Sokol owned/bought shares does not mean WB should not buy it. Not doing a legit good deal would be the problem!]

Kwani, if Sokol hid his share purchases [or the full extent] from his boss does NOT make the deal [purchase of Lubrizol] a bad deal as long as WB did the Due Diligence...

1. Allegations of inflating results of some firms BH owns and actually the SEC won some of the suits. I'm not saying that the father should be blamed for the sins of the son but the father should no better & institute better measures.
2. When WB invested in Goldman Sachs, it actually showed him in the light of giving an ok to 'gamble banking' as opposed to his value based investment strategy.
3. His investment in Moody's one of the rating agencies that rated sub-prime CDO's AAA.
4. I do agree he shouldn't let a good investment pass by coz of his associates but he should know better & ensure disclosure of various interested parties to the investing public. This is actually the reason why some of BH's shareholders are filing suits against it.

1) Which firms? Were they the firms Sokol was running? [At some point, you trust managers & auditors. WB doesn't personally run these firms but somehow it will be fixed.
2) WB made a BRILLIANT investment decision. He looked the IBs & decided to invest in GS. He did not make an illegal trade. He invested in VALUE. He made a 'loan' [not equity investment] at a very good return! WB did not screw up the system. He warned against Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac & Derivatives!
3) So he invested in Moodys. As an investment! Nothing illegal. If Moodys screwed up, how does that reflect on WB. Kwani, WB runs Moodys? NO. I do not think he is even on the Board of Moodys.
4) Deals are closed BEFORE the information is made public or there would be speculation driving up the price. As for what Sokol did, well... he will pay for it. WB fired him.

All the reasons you gave indicate that you blame WB for his investment choices [which are smart investments] but for firms he doesn't run. In each case, WB was merely investor.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#12 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2011 3:59:06 PM
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[quote=erifloss]This Sokol issue is really eating into WB's credibility.
http://blogs.reuters.com...aning-up-buffetts-mess/[/quote]
Coz it sells newspapers... Lakini, will it stop anyone selling firms to WB? No. Will it affect the credit rating of BH? No.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#13 Posted : Sunday, May 01, 2011 3:49:55 AM
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Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
Will Ajit Jain replace Buffett as CEO?

http://www.xe.com/news/2.../1869621.htm?c=1&t=

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajit_Jain
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
hisah
#14 Posted : Sunday, May 01, 2011 9:02:00 PM
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Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
The script reads from MERS mortgage fraud and other fraud cases including BoA, Vatican bank, JP Morgan, UBS, Citigroup, Credit Suisse, Societe Generali, Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Barclays, HSBC, Morgan Stanley, Berkshire, Oil majors, AIG (and many global insurance derivatives) etc... All major headlines since 2011 began as US debt soars to unsustainable levels, Eurozone defaults turn from movie stuff to real life, Japan hiding a major nuclear disaster and its debt burden now 200% of its GDP, gold and silver prices at unrelenting record highs, commodities too (not forgeting oil) and Middle East North Africa revolts... Not forgetting the Trillion dollar bond that was stolen from Japan and now under investigation in Italy being covered up with a sideshow case of Berlusconi's sex case. These undercurrents...

Feels like March 2008... What timing...
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
erifloss
#15 Posted : Sunday, May 01, 2011 9:45:32 PM
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@hisah, all that has made investors realize that Africa is the next(current) viable investment destination.
I remember a guy saying that facebook & twitter has done what the CIA failed to do & wished they could have done & the guys who first found this best use were not the Americans or Europeans but Africans.
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
youcan'tstopusnow
#16 Posted : Sunday, May 01, 2011 11:50:35 PM
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Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
BUFFET ADMITS HE MADE BIG MISTAKE. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13251237
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
hisah
#17 Posted : Monday, May 02, 2011 1:30:20 PM
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Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
erifloss wrote:
@hisah, all that has made investors realize that Africa is the next(current) viable investment destination.
I remember a guy saying that facebook & twitter has done what the CIA failed to do & wished they could have done & the guys who first found this best use were not the Americans or Europeans but Africans.

Not forgetting Mobile money has blown into pieces the credit card success story... But foreign local banks still think mwananchi will ditch the Mpesa, Zap, Yu-money and O-money to get access to a plastic card that induces more debt!? If Mpesa can move $1 Billion, much more than Western Union, what more evidence do they need to tell them to ditch those credit cards that mama mboga won't even qualify let alone the middle class...
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
VituVingiSana
#18 Posted : Monday, May 02, 2011 4:00:58 PM
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Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
hisah wrote:
erifloss wrote:
@hisah, all that has made investors realize that Africa is the next(current) viable investment destination.
I remember a guy saying that facebook & twitter has done what the CIA failed to do & wished they could have done & the guys who first found this best use were not the Americans or Europeans but Africans.

Not forgetting Mobile money has blown into pieces the credit card success story... But foreign local banks still think mwananchi will ditch the Mpesa, Zap, Yu-money and O-money to get access to a plastic card that induces more debt!? If Mpesa can move $1 Billion, much more than Western Union, what more evidence do they need to tell them to ditch those credit cards that mama mboga won't even qualify let alone the middle class...
I disagree. The credit card is NOT for everyone but you will see it gradually coming into play. Not necessarily the 'plastic' credit card but an alternate. The selling point is the 'credit'...

BTW, Equity would do wonders with such a vehicle for providing credit facilities! They make so much in fees & interest on the small trader loans...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
youcan'tstopusnow
#19 Posted : Monday, May 02, 2011 5:38:37 PM
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Location: Black Africa
Scandal taints Buffett's status as american hero www.businessdailyafrica....8/-/5q6yigz/-/index.html
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
erifloss
#20 Posted : Monday, May 02, 2011 7:24:10 PM
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Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 514
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
hisah wrote:
erifloss wrote:
@hisah, all that has made investors realize that Africa is the next(current) viable investment destination.
I remember a guy saying that facebook & twitter has done what the CIA failed to do & wished they could have done & the guys who first found this best use were not the Americans or Europeans but Africans.

Not forgetting Mobile money has blown into pieces the credit card success story... But foreign local banks still think mwananchi will ditch the Mpesa, Zap, Yu-money and O-money to get access to a plastic card that induces more debt!? If Mpesa can move $1 Billion, much more than Western Union, what more evidence do they need to tell them to ditch those credit cards that mama mboga won't even qualify let alone the middle class...
I disagree. The credit card is NOT for everyone but you will see it gradually coming into play. Not necessarily the 'plastic' credit card but an alternate. The selling point is the 'credit'...

BTW, Equity would do wonders with such a vehicle for providing credit facilities! They make so much in fees & interest on the small trader loans...

I do agree with @vvs though our type of 'credit' is going to be extremely different from that of the West. When Grameen bank came into play the west never thought it would work but it did. I do think that the frontier for credit in Kenya has been set but the pace is not going to be set by the MFI's or some banks as people seem to think, this is coz Kenya as a society is full of a bright people who have started realizing that they are being ripped off by MFI's & banks in terms of interest rates. This can be seen by the growth of the NSE & bond market. I see small business owners negotiate nowadays in terms of credit periods, payment terms, invoice discounting, forfeiture & some even forward pricing which to me shows that we are coming up with our own credit system that will be understandable to our society and economic system.
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
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