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Cic
TUPAC
#221 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:54:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 274
Location: Ltktk
jerry wrote:
luxel wrote:

Why is it that some few days to the AGM this company has not bothered to publish their december 2010 financial statements. For a company that is about to list in the NSE shouldnt they be behaving as if they are listed to create confidence.
The website still has 2009 accounts as the latest!

>>I also wonder why they've a website.

they promised to have their annual report on their website after 15th april. how long does it take to do that? or they will do it after the agm in may!
...things fall apart...the centre cannot hold..mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...w b yeats
TUPAC
#222 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:01:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 274
Location: Ltktk
annual report finally posted on the web.
...things fall apart...the centre cannot hold..mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...w b yeats
Iborian
#223 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:07:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 194
Someone(s) does follow Wazua after all...
PKoli
#224 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:45:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
TUPAC wrote:
annual report finally posted on the web.



Thanks, it is a big document though, 5 MB
Aguytrying
#225 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:54:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
There's always this feeling i get when i know that i have to buy a company's shares. Im getting this feeling here. couldnt get into it during the rights issue last year. looking at it at the OTC. Just wondering however, why would they plan to list at the bourse on 2012 the year of the election???
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
PKoli
#226 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 11:46:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
Aguytrying wrote:
There's always this feeling i get when i know that i have to buy a company's shares. Im getting this feeling here. couldnt get into it during the rights issue last year. looking at it at the OTC. Just wondering however, why would they plan to list at the bourse on 2012 the year of the election???


They want to list in the second half of 2012 possibly after elections.

The last three year's of CIC annual accounts, the Chairman always talks about the political landscape. So they are aware of the 2012 politics
bird_man
#227 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:53:22 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
The report mentions that they intend to list during the 2nd quarter of 2012.That to me sounds like before Elections.
Why would anyone want to do that?Why not wait for March 2013?
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
TUPAC
#228 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:51:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 274
Location: Ltktk
PKoli wrote:
TUPAC wrote:
annual report finally posted on the web.



Thanks, it is a big document though, 5 MB

@pkoli would you mind selling me only 500 cic shares@45 bob? am sure you have a way of replacing the ones you sell to me.
...things fall apart...the centre cannot hold..mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...w b yeats
PKoli
#229 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 12:46:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
TUPAC wrote:
PKoli wrote:
TUPAC wrote:
annual report finally posted on the web.



Thanks, it is a big document though, 5 MB

@pkoli would you mind selling me only 500 cic shares@45 bob? am sure you have a way of replacing the ones you sell to me.


@TUPAC,

I am currently out of Nairobi, when I am back in about two weeks time, I can sell you the 500 shares.
bartum
#230 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 12:59:20 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,011
Location: nairobi
what a gentleman this pkoli is si ata mimi kidogo tu at 48
PKoli
#231 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:04:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
bartum wrote:
what a gentleman this pkoli is si ata mimi kidogo tu at 48


@ Bartun, I will clear my little shareholding..This has been my major stock and I do not want to sell all of them. Let me sort out TUPAC then we can talk.
bartum
#232 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:10:58 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,011
Location: nairobi
PKoli wrote:
bartum wrote:
what a gentleman this pkoli is si ata mimi kidogo tu at 48


@ Bartun, I will clear my little shareholding..This has been my major stock and I do not want to sell all of them. Let me sort out TUPAC then we can talk.

thanks in advance
PKoli
#233 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:11:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
@TUPAC and Bartum,

What is the current demand price at Suntra? I havent checked since the rights issue.
TUPAC
#234 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:22:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 274
Location: Ltktk
PKoli wrote:
TUPAC wrote:
PKoli wrote:
TUPAC wrote:
annual report finally posted on the web.



Thanks, it is a big document though, 5 MB

@pkoli would you mind selling me only 500 cic shares@45 bob? am sure you have a way of replacing the ones you sell to me.


@TUPAC,

I am currently out of Nairobi, when I am back in about two weeks time, I can sell you the 500 shares.

@Koli thanks a lot man.been in need of just kidogo coz have been planning kuongeza kidogo tu but its like the shares are too scarce saa hii. will surely appreciate. incase you can clinch some deal on these shares pliz saidia some of us who need these shares lakini hatuna connections! and as you know you are our light as far as cic shares here at wazua are concerned. Hope you are also planning to attend the AGM. I must attend!
...things fall apart...the centre cannot hold..mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...w b yeats
PKoli
#235 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:29:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
TUPAC wrote:
PKoli wrote:
TUPAC wrote:
PKoli wrote:
TUPAC wrote:
annual report finally posted on the web.



Thanks, it is a big document though, 5 MB

@pkoli would you mind selling me only 500 cic shares@45 bob? am sure you have a way of replacing the ones you sell to me.


@TUPAC,

I am currently out of Nairobi, when I am back in about two weeks time, I can sell you the 500 shares.

@Koli thanks a lot man.been in need of just kidogo coz have been planning kuongeza kidogo tu but its like the shares are too scarce saa hii. will surely appreciate. incase you can clinch some deal on these shares pliz saidia some of us who need these shares lakini hatuna connections! and as you know you are our light as far as cic shares here at wazua are concerned. Hope you are also planning to attend the AGM. I must attend!



Yes, I will attend the AGM. Last year I attended the EGM and I liked the tone of the CEO. I would like to have a feel of what strategies they have and if they are serious in listing in 2012. FYI I have no connections, just started a little early and bought during the 1st private placement. Been adding kidogo since then and during the rights, I just took up my rights with a few extra.
TUPAC
#236 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:29:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 274
Location: Ltktk
PKoli wrote:
@TUPAC and Bartum,

What is the current demand price at Suntra? I havent checked since the rights issue.

@pkoli i was there jana.the demand is in the range of 40, 45, 50. but there are no sellers. so many buy orders and zero sell order.the madam there told me ati watu hawauzi coz cic announced a split. is there no other way of getting wazees who have these shares to offload some to us at reasonable price? after all listing is 1 full year from now. so one has to lock in his money after all!
...things fall apart...the centre cannot hold..mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...w b yeats
PKoli
#237 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:32:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
TUPAC wrote:
PKoli wrote:
@TUPAC and Bartum,

What is the current demand price at Suntra? I havent checked since the rights issue.

@pkoli i was there jana.the demand is in the range of 40, 45, 50. but there are no sellers. so many buy orders and zero sell order.the madam there told me ati watu hawauzi coz cic announced a split. is there no other way of getting wazees who have these shares to offload some to us at reasonable price? after all listing is 1 full year from now. so one has to lock in his money after all!


I will let you know when I am back in Nairobi.
TUPAC
#238 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:55:06 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 274
Location: Ltktk
@koli how will cic maintain 60per cent shareholding by saccos without a bonus issue or a rights issue?coz how will they treat the 90M shares they are creating?
what do you think they will do with them and what percentage of the 90M shares will e used to raise additional capital?
...things fall apart...the centre cannot hold..mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...w b yeats
PKoli
#239 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:17:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
TUPAC wrote:
@koli how will cic maintain 60per cent shareholding by saccos without a bonus issue or a rights issue?coz how will they treat the 90M shares they are creating?
what do you think they will do with them and what percentage of the 90M shares will e used to raise additional capital?


I think they can do that by issuing some of the 90M shares as bonus to the existing shareholders, majority are saccos. The rest could be listed. Those are just my thoughts..
PKoli
#240 Posted : Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:08:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
mwanahisa wrote:
@PKoli, you appear to be the most knowledgeable/active Wazuan regarding matters CIC. Could you kindly post for us the salient figures/ratios for CIC? This will enable us make an objective valuation of CIC versus the listed insurance companies.

I have in mind the NAV; EPS; Div Yield; growth rates in Net Premium income, Investment Income (if possible give a breakdown between realised gains and those attributed to gains in fair value on financial assets through P&L) and the overall growth in profitability. Kindly use the number of shares issued (post the rights issue assuming all those who asked for extra shares are alloted). This will provide a good view of the effect of the anticipated dilution.

Thanks is advance.

PKoli wrote:
I think for along time CIC was used to dealing with Saccos. It was a lot easier to communicate with few sacco officials; they now have to revamp their Corporate Communications department to deal with us, ordinary shareholders.



@Mwanahisa

Here are some basic numbers, I could not excatly answer your queries since CIC have been having different issued shares from 2007.

2007 2008 2009 2010
Total shares (M) 19.44 20.689 21.399 30.571
Earnings per share 6.40 8.50 11.03 15.91
Dividend per share 1.4 1.4 1.60 3.14
Book value per share 29.43 36.62 46.27 85.35
Return on Assets 5.10 5.81 6.76 7.41
Return on Equity 21.75 23.23 23.84 18.65
Market price/share 12.50 28.00 35.00 65.00
Price/Book Value 0.42 0.76 0.76 0.76
P/E 1.95 3.29 3.17 4.08

Comparative analysis
CFC Insurance Holdings P/BV (the lowest in the insurance industry) of 1.68X, the share price should be at KES 104.00 if it were listed today.
CFC Insurance holdings has a low P/BV because of its low ROE (2010: 5.26).
The P/BVs for Jubilee and Pan Afric Insurance Holdings should give guidance with Jubilee having an ROE of 35.97% in 2010 while Pan Africa 32.16%. Jubilee is trading at 2X BV while Pan Africa is trading at 2.45X book value.
CIC Insurance had ROE of 18.65% implying its value is in between Jubilee/Pan Afric and CFC Insurance and therefore a book value of between 1.95C and 2.05X is appropriate meaning valuation could be between KES 126.00 and 133.00.

I think the price should be much higher given the recent Coop Bank interest in CIC and the growth prospect of the Cooperative movement in the country.

I am sorry the figures from word are distorted.
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