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House-helps and HIV
McReggae
#61 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 11:06:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
yup. In fact I abstained for 3 months so the test results would be final


Gives an impression that yu r single....right?
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
otienosmall
#62 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 1:30:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
KenyanLyrics wrote:
yup. In fact I abstained for 3 months so the test results would be final


I almost thought you feel discriminated
jasonhill
#63 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 11:02:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Here in the US, there are laws against discrimination due to HIV, but I'll tell you, even in the workplace, if people find out, people will indeed avoid you- they won't use the restroom you use, they won't use your phone, will don gloves if they have to work on your computer or desk, carrying small spray bottles of rubbing alcohol, Clorox wipes, etc. and will cross the office to avoid you- not everyone will, but quite a large number of people will. In addition, employers reserve the right to check your desk, locker, bags, handbags, - even your car when you park in their lot- and personal belonging when you walk into their facilities, so privacy is out-the-door, and when one person, regardless of the reason, starts to affect the dynamic of the business environment negatively, whether their fault or not, they will get "managed out" for a legally defensible reason eventually.

And that is in the office!

It seems that even when people know what science says (and many people don't know, or just don't trust the data) about transmission and exposure, people are still scared and feel unsure because it isn't yet curable- it's a BIG risk. As far as in the home, the home is a very personal place, where people don't want to feel scared or concerned. That's what I think this comes down to; if a family can't feel comfortable and secure in their own home, with a house-help or for whatever reason, especially when it comes to children, the relationship is broken beyond repair, and can't survive.

But at any rate, I would hope that a house-help breastfeeding the family's kid, or worse... (!) would end that relationship sooner, rather than someone having HIV. Maybe the solution is some ground-rules and a steady supply of Hydrogen Peroxide.

Best,

Hill
KenyanLyrics
#64 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 11:09:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
Well, ignoring proven facts for me is the height of immaturity. Going further and allowing yourself to buy into unproven unlikely rumours is now sheer stupidity.
Tommy
#65 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:14:16 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/9/2010
Posts: 894
Location: Nairobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
Well, ignoring proven facts for me is the height of immaturity. Going further and allowing yourself to buy into unproven unlikely rumours is now sheer stupidity.

@kenyanlyrics, i know that for now u sound very right. and i dont think u have/ever had a house gal and experienced how this people reason. i think that its wrong to attend a cattle dip(munanda) meeting if u dont have a cow.
Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
Tommy
#66 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:16:11 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/9/2010
Posts: 894
Location: Nairobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
Well, ignoring proven facts for me is the height of immaturity. Going further and allowing yourself to buy into unproven unlikely rumours is now sheer stupidity.

@kenyanlyrics, i know that for now u sound very right. and i dont think u have/ever had a house gal and experienced how this people reason. i think that its wrong to attend a cattle dip(munanda) meeting if u dont have a cow.
Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
Tommy
#67 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:18:22 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/9/2010
Posts: 894
Location: Nairobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
Well, ignoring proven facts for me is the height of immaturity. Going further and allowing yourself to buy into unproven unlikely rumours is now sheer stupidity.

@kenyanlyrics, i know that for now u sound very right. and i dont think u have/ever had a house gal and experienced how this people reason. i think that its wrong to attend a cattle dip(munanda) meeting if u dont have a cow.
Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
Tommy
#68 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:23:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/9/2010
Posts: 894
Location: Nairobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
Well, ignoring proven facts for me is the height of immaturity. Going further and allowing yourself to buy into unproven unlikely rumours is now sheer stupidity.

@kenyanlyrics, i know that for now u sound very right. and i dont think u have/ever had a house gal and experienced how this people reason. i think that its wrong to attend a cattle dip(munanda) meeting if u dont have a cow.
Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
Tommy
#69 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:27:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/9/2010
Posts: 894
Location: Nairobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
Well, ignoring proven facts for me is the height of immaturity. Going further and allowing yourself to buy into unproven unlikely rumours is now sheer stupidity.

@kenyanlyrics, i know that for now u sound very right. and i dont think u have/ever had a house gal and experienced how this people reason. i think that its wrong to attend a cattle dip(munanda) meeting if u dont have a cow.
Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
Tommy
#70 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:29:38 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/9/2010
Posts: 894
Location: Nairobi
so many of my posts, sorry guyz for the mistake but there is no reverse
Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
KenyanLyrics
#71 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 2:54:10 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
Actually in our house there's always been 2 or 3 househelps present at the same time. Chances are many of them have had HIV, but we've never bothered to find out, and I am yet to contract HIV from them. It's a non-issue guys
Ms Mkenya
#72 Posted : Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:50:33 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
I am a mother, my first ministry, responsibility, role etc is to my children. If i found she was HIV +, i'd ask her to leave coz my children matter most. I'll assist in every way i can but not as my house help. My employer sent me for a medical exam so i find nothing wrong in taking a girl for a pre-employment medical exam.
Oti Small, you did the right thing. Do not feel guilty. Should she disclose it to u or ur wife however, try direct her to those support groups that help PWA's start businesses or get employment.
I agree with many people here, being a parent comes with an overwhelming desire to protect your child from hurt from any corner. So naturally you will not take this risk.
....above all, to stand.
Euge
#73 Posted : Sunday, April 24, 2011 10:04:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/4/2008
Posts: 2,849
Location: Rupi
jguru wrote:
KenyanLyrics wrote:
you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here. Regardless of whether you are a parent or not, the facts about HIV transmission are very clear, and have been drummed away so repetitively in the recent past that all Wazuans can recite the transmission methods by heart. However, despite the clear presence of these facts, you have decided to abandon logic and terminate somebody's employment based on a flimsy 'what if' argument.

One of my guiding principles in life is to do unto others as you would like them to do to you. The best way of analysing this situation is to reverse it. If you were the one who was a houseboy on ARVs, would you deem it fair if your employer were to fire you based on your HIV status?


@KenyanLyrics: The househelp does not necessary have to infect the child with HIV through sexual intercourse or exchange of body/blood products. A TB infection to a 2 year old is a grave matter. Either the TB infection itself, or the 6 months regimen of anti-TBs might kill the child. A herpes zoster infection will stay with the child for life, and will leave nasty scars to show for it. The househelp prepares the family's food. The parents might be able to fight a diarrhoeal disease, the children will succumb to vomiting and diarrhoea.

@otieno: Considering you have no access to her clinical records (they remain strictly confidential), it is up to you as a parent, to decide whether to keep the househelp or not, since you cannot assess her health state yourself.



I have a friend whose 2 weeks old child caught TB. It took long to discover coz the lung collapsed etc.....Once the docs discovered it collapsed coz of TB, the did tests on members of the household and the house girl tested positive (for TB). To cut a long story short, it cost the family 6 million in medical care for the child.

The ideal situation would to take the housegirls for health tests and for them to get health certificates (just like it is a requirement by law for food handlers in public facilities.
Lord, thank you!
jguru
#74 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:37:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
Euge wrote:
The ideal situation would to take the housegirls for health tests and for them to get health certificates (just like it is a requirement by law for food handlers in public facilities.


I think so too.

However, this would give the human rights groups fodder to feed on. Discrimination, human rights etc.
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
MaichBlack
#75 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:49:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
Euge wrote:
I have a friend whose 2 weeks old child caught TB. It took long to discover coz the lung collapsed etc.....Once the docs discovered it collapsed coz of TB, the did tests on members of the household and the house girl tested positive (for TB). To cut a long story short, it cost the family 6 million in medical care for the child.

And this is what @KenyaLyrics and crew are calling a non-issue! One might actually say that your friend was 'lucky'. If the kid belonged to 99% of Kenyans, he would have passed on because they definitely couldn't afford Kshs. 6 million. What I'm I saying? Heck, a majority of Kenyans can't afford 600,000/= or even 60,000/=. Come to think of it, half the population would have a challenge to raise 6,000/= on a moments notice - without affect their monthly budget.

@KenyaLyrics will probably say you can take the kid to a government hospital. If you don't want the pain of watching your kid on a hospital bench or being treated with pain killers for months on end, then this is a route you will try to avoid at all costs.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
famooz
#76 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:00:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,047
Euge wrote:
jguru wrote:
[quote=KenyanLyrics]you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here. Regardless of whether you are a parent or not, the facts about HIV transmission are very clear, and have been drummed away so repetitively in the recent past that all Wazuans can recite the transmission methods by heart. However, despite the clear presence of these facts, you have decided to abandon logic and terminate somebody's employment based on a flimsy 'what if' argument.

One of my guiding principles in life is to do unto others as you would like them to do to you. The best way of analysing this situation is to reverse it. If you were the one who was a houseboy on ARVs, would you deem it fair if your employer were to fire you based on your HIV status?


I have a friend whose 2 weeks old child caught TB. It took long to discover coz the lung collapsed etc.....Once the docs discovered it collapsed coz of TB, the did tests on members of the household and the house girl tested positive (for TB). To cut a long story short, it cost the family 6 million in medical care for the child.

.


6M to treat TB? Shame on you
Elder
#77 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2011 10:21:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
famooz wrote:
Euge wrote:
jguru wrote:
[quote=KenyanLyrics]you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here. Regardless of whether you are a parent or not, the facts about HIV transmission are very clear, and have been drummed away so repetitively in the recent past that all Wazuans can recite the transmission methods by heart. However, despite the clear presence of these facts, you have decided to abandon logic and terminate somebody's employment based on a flimsy 'what if' argument.

One of my guiding principles in life is to do unto others as you would like them to do to you. The best way of analysing this situation is to reverse it. If you were the one who was a houseboy on ARVs, would you deem it fair if your employer were to fire you based on your HIV status?


I have a friend whose 2 weeks old child caught TB. It took long to discover coz the lung collapsed etc.....Once the docs discovered it collapsed coz of TB, the did tests on members of the household and the house girl tested positive (for TB). To cut a long story short, it cost the family 6 million in medical care for the child.

.


6M to treat TB? Shame on you


Very possible. Consider the age of the patient. 2 weeks old. At that age a baby would be most likely admitted even for a mere common cold. Now consider it is TB. The type of medical care needed. The period of the treatment. And have you heard of XDR-TB (Drug-Resistant Tuberculosis) or
(MDR-TB) Multi-Drug-Resistant Tuberculosis? You must be living under a rock.
He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
Spend.thrift
#78 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2011 10:27:46 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 302
famooz wrote:
Euge wrote:
jguru wrote:
[quote=KenyanLyrics]you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here. Regardless of whether you are a parent or not, the facts about HIV transmission are very clear, and have been drummed away so repetitively in the recent past that all Wazuans can recite the transmission methods by heart. However, despite the clear presence of these facts, you have decided to abandon logic and terminate somebody's employment based on a flimsy 'what if' argument.

One of my guiding principles in life is to do unto others as you would like them to do to you. The best way of analysing this situation is to reverse it. If you were the one who was a houseboy on ARVs, would you deem it fair if your employer were to fire you based on your HIV status?


I have a friend whose 2 weeks old child caught TB. It took long to discover coz the lung collapsed etc.....Once the docs discovered it collapsed coz of TB, the did tests on members of the household and the house girl tested positive (for TB). To cut a long story short, it cost the family 6 million in medical care for the child.

.


6M to treat TB? Shame on you


@Famooz, Just picture the fragility of a 2 month old and then the amount of time it takes to fully treat TB. Is it 18 months- I'm not sure but it's a long time - add private medical care, and a medical insurance magic card you will see 6 million or more. I bet it would be upto 75 times less or even free in public health facilities.
famooz
#79 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2011 11:50:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,047
@ spend.thrift that amount of money did not go to treating TB. This explains to you what happens when social services such as health care are commercialised and the service provider makes available the services needed or wanted by consumers at a price they are willing to pay for;this is self regulation.

Having Worked in the health sector ,i can tell you without contradicting myself that treating TB cannot cost 6M,even assuming that the kid needed life support etc.

But the good news in all of this is that the kid lived! :)

Euge
#80 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2011 1:45:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/4/2008
Posts: 2,849
Location: Rupi
famooz wrote:
Euge wrote:
jguru wrote:
[quote=KenyanLyrics]you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here. Regardless of whether you are a parent or not, the facts about HIV transmission are very clear, and have been drummed away so repetitively in the recent past that all Wazuans can recite the transmission methods by heart. However, despite the clear presence of these facts, you have decided to abandon logic and terminate somebody's employment based on a flimsy 'what if' argument.

One of my guiding principles in life is to do unto others as you would like them to do to you. The best way of analysing this situation is to reverse it. If you were the one who was a houseboy on ARVs, would you deem it fair if your employer were to fire you based on your HIV status?


I have a friend whose 2 weeks old child caught TB. It took long to discover coz the lung collapsed etc.....Once the docs discovered it collapsed coz of TB, the did tests on members of the household and the house girl tested positive (for TB). To cut a long story short, it cost the family 6 million in medical care for the child.

.


6M to treat TB? Shame on you



Yes 6 million and they are still paying the bill. Kid was first treated for wrong illness before they discovered what it was and was in and out of hospital (including theatre) till at 8 months.
Lord, thank you!
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