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my beef with some "Custodians" of the GOSPEL..
Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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ps..edited Title..original was "my beef with Custodians of the GOSPEL".. i'm refering to those with responsibility to teach God's word.. Pardon me.. i'm trapped in an office with nothing to do.. so let me just vent here.  I'v always been baffled by this quote: Mohandas Mahatma Gandhi wrote:I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi ..It is wise to say upfront all this is based on the Bible..which to me is God's word. That said..in my daily walk in this life of a believer.. i have come to realize that God made man..that he could express his love and fellowship to man.. sin was not a factor..so is living "right"..satan brought sin..tricked man off his dominion..and shackled him to sin..God lost fellowship with man..and begun a process to restore man back.. Dominion in and over earth is man's..not spirits..not angels..not animals..but man..authority is right to wield that dominion.. Satan..angel..spirit..rebelled against God..lost everything angelic..tricked man to give him Dominion/authority..hence an agent (Agency Law?) of man..hid under man..God cannot destroy satan without destroying man..as long as satan is in contract with man.. God is spirit..dominion in earth was expressly given to man..so in a sense..God is bound by his own word..will NEVER contradict himself..seeks to get man's dominion from satan..only man can do that..of self will..Hence Jesus Christ.. 1 john 3:8..for this purpose the son of God was manifest..to DESTROY the works of satan.. That being done..all dominion in heaven and earth is with Jesus..satan powers are wasted..damn thug deserves not to live.. ukiona yeye weka tyrE!! NKT! SO..all this happened that God would have man restored to former estate..of love and fellowship with him.. so, in comes preachers and pastors, the Custodians of the Gospel.. and all they teach is "God is broken hearted, angry..totally incensed and looking to the day to pour wrath on man!! so RePEnt..be saved..you won't go to hell.. and be careful..if you sin..you DIE!!..and GO TO HELL> GO STRAIGHT TO HELL. DO NOT PASS GO. DO NOT COLLECT 200!!" ..Eternal life..they defined as life with no end. DUH!! of course!..even non belivers have life with no end!!..but what did Christ mean by the phrase? There's pretty little difference between an outright heathen and a nowadays Christian..nothing i Tell you..both hungry..both broke..both sick..both dead-men walking..both hate politicians.. ... ..i thought "Gospel" meant, and rightly so, " The Good news"... unfortunately..there is nothing good news worthy in our lives! we take tragedies, accidents, death, calamity as God sent..a loved one dies..we claim somberly, "God loved him more".. How now? My english..as pointed by Ms Kenya in a different thread..is pretty much limited.. but i know what "GOOD" means..and if GOD is good..infinitely good..plus a father in literal meaning of the word..then tell me i ask..even in a vagabond-heathenious-barbaric home..would a father smite a child with sickness for ,well, i don't know, forgot to read the bible, would u break your daughters leg for being mean to her brother?... GoodNESS!!!!.. the crap we blame God for!! AAAiii!!.. soon u'll hear a prophet declare GOD smote Japan for not hearing Him!! AJE SASA??? which god is this?..coz trully..the God in the Bible..has no mood swings..and doesn't delight in smighting people.. Anyway..Eternal life..for which Christ died.. John 17:3 wrote:...And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.. Christianity has been in kenya over 100 years and nobody ever saw that? how now? ..i think the worst thing done by the custodians of the Gospel was to teach fear,Hell and wrath of God.. ..rather than relationship with God.. To know God is why Christ died..restore u to a fellowship with God..forgiveness..holiness..righteousness..spirit filled lives..heaven..blessings come with the package..coz that's what He is..you gain them from exposure to God...they are NOT A MEANS TO GOD...when you Know Him..they manifest in you.. unfortunately..we are a generation too lazy to seek God for ourselves..we want someone to do it for us..read the bible for us..pray for us..we've made preachers demi gods.. CrAP!! as a result we have a generation of believers totally trapped in guilt..completely scared of God and cannot trust His love..goodness..grace..a generation that has exalted fear of sin and hell above God..a generation more conversant with satan n judgment than with Christ.. sometimes i wanna slap a pastor! The reason people hate christians..is we don't know our God... and that's just too sad.. coz if we did..disease..poverty..lack in our lives.. psychological or otherwise wouldn't be. We observe piety and holiness and justice as a means to manipulate and commandeer GOD..we arm twist Him to bless us and castigate anyone with views contrary to ours.. Yap..God is broken hearted..at just how selfseeking we are.. and of venting. ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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I agree with you on 2 things: 1. satan need to be lynched to death(quoting citizentv yesterdays newsticker of course so @MS Mkenya chill out ) 2.We dont read the bible as we ought to . I disagree with the notion that we have custodians of the gospel.In the begining God wanted man to have dominion over the earth.But as we know he failed,then during Moses time he wanted to restore this dominion by letting pple be the high priests..contacting God directly, but they chose the golden calf as their god,therefore God was forced to separate the House of LEVI to serve him on behalf of the children of Israel.This continued up to the time the children of Israel decided they wanted a king.Upto that time the children of Israel used the priest to serve or communicate with God the direct relationship was non-existent. Jesus Christ came to restore mans relationship with God which was already strained.King after King had led the children of Israel deeper into sin the only way to cleanse the pple is to use a Scapegoat which in this case was Jesus Christ.His death was to restore our direct relationship with God in that we are all Priest with Jesus as the High Priest. we are all apostles of the gospel and our work will pass through fire to see how pure it is if it was made of gold it will pass n shine away but if it was made of grass you shall be burnt. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2007 Posts: 2,047
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proverb wewe uko na beef nyingi.....si you summarise the thing!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 2,306
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Msee,I see I need time to respond to you since I differ with you on severals points but also agree with you here and there. Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/24/2011 Posts: 407 Location: Nairobi,Kenya
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If you want peace of mind/soul...wacha maswali mingi..Wewe na Mungu ni kwa Roho yako! Hope is not a strategy
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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@selah... mhmmm... drop me a mail.. homead.ke@gmail.com..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/26/2008 Posts: 365
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@ProverB Are you trying to question God? Well, there is your answer... Isaiah 55:8-9 NIV 8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. If you have only one smile in you, give it to the people you love - Maya Angelou
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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Jacy26 wrote:@ProverB
Are you trying to question God? Well, there is your answer...
Isaiah 55:8-9 NIV
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
waaaaartt?? How now?  ..aaaand what makes you think that? LOL! ..GOD has done his part..totally and completely..by GRace... I'm questioning where this GRACE is in lives of believers..believers living worse lives than none believers..believers who do NOT KNOW just how AwESome this God is and what He has done for them.. ...eg...by his stripes you WERE healed..why do you walk sick?..and beg ,plead,bribe God in the name of prayer or even go to LOLIONDO and yet God says YOu are healed.. most of us are born again in our literature and speech but serious unbelievrs in lifestyle.. and so.. i blame the pastors or those in spiritual authority! ..it is because of our lifestyles we who are belivers, that God's name is mocked by non-believers.. Paul wrote:Romans 2:24
As it is written, "God's name is being blasphemed among the gentiles because of you."
Tehehehehhhe.. Proverb questioning God... LOL! ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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@Proverb, I like that ability to question the 'unquestionable' not God. Keep searching.
Another example - In death same pardox - ati 'God took him (slum dweller) to a better place(heaven)',but you have the Kibera residents crying inconsolable on his departure to a better place...hmmm...wait for it here it comes...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/13/2010 Posts: 869 Location: Nairobi
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@ Selah, I have chilled out... ....above all, to stand.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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sanity wrote:If you want peace of mind/soul...wacha maswali mingi..Wewe na Mungu ni kwa Roho yako! Dude... Jeremiah wrote:Jer 29:11-13For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you.
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I'm just seeking..and seriously finding Him. Concerning Peace.. Isaiah wrote:Isa 26:3..You will keep in perfect peace him whose mind are stayed on you,because he trusts in you. And again..my favorite.. St Peter wrote:2Pet 1:2..Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, Power of knowing God..essence of Salvation.. John 17:3 wrote:...And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.. ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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ProverB, I agree that God cannot destroy satan without destroying man as long as satan is in contract with man. But this 'contract' was nullified when God sacrificed himself for man and set man free. Man is now free but man cannot do anything on his own. Man cannot save himself as there is no other way to God except through Jesus and Jesus paid the penalty for man to be saved. By the way, there are no custodians of the gospel. That will be God himself, for he is the word. I would not put it as God is looking for the day to pour wrath on man, but he is looking forward to the day he will be with his bride. What will happen to the others will not be the reason he is coming back. The very brightness of God, being visibly around in the neighbourhood and vicinity, will destroy them. Take note that this symbolism is explained and a woman is taken to be the church in the book of revelation. In that same book are two women; one a prostitute and the other a bride. The prostitute is the church that started off with belief in God but has deviated from the 'husband to be' and engaged in other things, money, power, idlolatry, sowing seeds etc, adulterating as it were her beliefs and faith in God, the bridesgroom. There is not much to say on the 2nd woman. Having recognised that, not all preachers and pastors and christians carry favour with God. But non believers will not have life without end. On the day the lord returns, all life, except for his bride, and satan will be destroyed. After a millenium, all other people and the prostitute will be resurrected and this time when satan is destroyed they will be destroyed too. There is no purgatory or torment forever. They will be no more as if they never existed. So dont be dismayed that there is little difference between an outright heathen and a mordern christian. The mordern christian is but a 'prostitute' in the eyes of the God they try to impress with their mordernity though outwardly they appear to follow God. That is where they started off anyway but not anymore. So when you hear such phrases as 'God loved him more' just relax, those are maneno tupu. There is this site called 'Christians United for Israel'. I browse it to keep abreast with one of the myraid things the prostitute is up to. That said, where do you fit? The prostitute or the bride? Mohandas Mahatma Gandhi wrote:I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi So back to your first quote, if one can only identify Jesus Christ and his followers from the 'chirstian' din all around the world, one will see there is no disconnect between Jesus Christ and his followers. And such a statement will not be true for the true christians, the true bride of Jesus Christ CANNOT be unlike Jesus Christ. Oh, but if you are waiting for these true christians to be visible and hence positively influence the world, forget it, it will never happen. The prince of this world is hard at work, deceiving everybody even the very elect. There is total war out there against them out there, they are struggling to survive in the face of all sorts of temptations, trying to convince God to come get them out of this world ASAP. Making an impact on this world is not in their to-do list. So people hate 'christians'.....to me that sounds just like part of the 'grand design' by the 'grand architect'. That has been his aim ever since, get people to hate what is of God. And he is quite successful, I hasten to add. Mohandas Mahatma Gandhi wrote:I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi Disillusionment with God then follows.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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ecstacy wrote:@Proverb, I like that ability to question the 'unquestionable' not God. Keep searching.
Another example - In death same pardox - ati 'God took him (slum dweller) to a better place(heaven)',but you have the Kibera residents crying inconsolable on his departure to a better place...hmmm...wait for it here it comes... Ecstacy.. ..my beef is if just 10% of all believers out there really BELIEVED and KNEW God...this country...heck! This world would be Totally competely turned right-side up!!! If truly we beleived..after all..this is the ONLY thing required.. St John wrote:John 6:28-29... Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. ..standing on His word for real...and not when convenient to do so.. All corruption in this country is largely within circles of presumable "Believers"... it is believers who are driving down to LOLIONDO.. ..  ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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Not questioning. Reasoning. God says come let us reason together...................
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/30/2010 Posts: 176
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ProverB wrote:Pardon me.. i'm trapped in an office with nothing to do.. so let me just vent here. I'v always been baffled by this quote: [quote=Mohandas Mahatma Gandhi ]I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi @ProverB, Mahatma Gadhi's observation is true for most Christians not all christians. I do agree with you that we have a generation of believers who are too lazy to seek God for ourselves. And yes, we've wrongly made demi-gods of our pastors and think we can barter with God to bless us. Maybe these are the reasons why Christians are ineffective in this world. I however disagree with some of your statements: 1. God can destroy Satan without destroying man. He is God, and by virtue of being God (not a god), He is capable of doing ANYTHING He pleases. 2. Satan is no agent of man otherwise Satan would do man's bidding. Satan dominates man as man handed over his authority to Satan when he chose to listen to Satan as opposed to God when it came to eating the forbidden fruit in eden. 3. God does not seek to help man get his dominion back. Rather, He offers man a choice on how to get his authority back through the once-and-for-all sacrifice of His son. That's why in the name of Jesus, man has authority to cast out demons (Satan's agents), trample on snakes and scorpions to no harm, etc. 4. As Selah has said, preachers/pastors ain't custodians of the Gospel. We've wrongly made them into custodians. The Gospel is available to all without need for intermediaries. 5.God does not smite man with sickness, Satan does. Remember Job? Satan had to ask for permission from God to smite him with sickness. Remember there was no sickness in Eden. Sickness came as a result of man handing his authority to Satan and Satan took over with all his destructive weapons eg sickness. 6. No matter how well we know our God, no matter how tight a relationship we have with God, there will always be disease, poverty and lack. Remember even in the days of the holiest of men(Noah, Enoch, Elisha) there was still sin (and it consequences) in the world. I hope the venting helped.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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Yesuwangu.. .. well..of symbolism and interpretation..that has not been give to me.. ..so what i read in the Bible..is what I take.. sijui ku interpret.. Kiasi Illustrating here.. .. .Isaiah says..God keeps in perfect peace him whose mind is stayed on him... if there's no peace in my life.. who is to blame?..definitely my self..coz God is not a man that He would lie ..Isaiah 52...by His stripes we were healed...past tense..already happened..so if am sick..do i do right to go to church pleading and praying for healing?..or do I believe and accept just as i did in believing and accepting salvation.. Jehovah Jireh..my provider..what business do i have conning people..stealing..bribing..faking stuff just to add an extra coin? The thing is.. If we who are believers really believed... so much drama would be cut off..and every damned heathen out there would climb over your wall desperate to KNOW your GOD!!! ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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Dia wrote:
I however disagree with some of your statements:
5.God does not smite man with sickness, Satan does. Remember Job? Satan had to ask for permission from God to smite him with sickness. Remember there was no sickness in Eden. Sickness came as a result of man handing his authority to Satan and Satan took over with all his destructive weapons eg sickness.
6. No matter how well we know our God, no matter how tight a relationship we have with God, there will always be disease, poverty and lack. Remember even in the days of the holiest of men(Noah, Enoch, Elisha) there was still sin (and it consequences) in the world.
I hope the venting helped.
Hey.. i omitted the rest coz i agree.. However.. I did NOT claim number 5..it was a reference to what I have heard over and over in church etc.. Number 6... Quoting Jesus.. HIMSELF...not interpreting.. St Matthew wrote:Matt 11:11
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. meaning..if you..Dia..are born again..you are greater than John the baptist..who is greater than David..Moses..Daniel..Noah..all those guys you have quoted.. Now..when i tell you that..your first though is UONGO!!..your first reaction is unbelief...yet there enough incidents in the BIBLE saying it is your unbelief that is your undoing.. without faith you cannot please God..without faith you cannot accept God..nor His word...without FAITH you cannot belive Jesus calls you greater than Elijah.. His words ..not mine...na hio Bible haijaandikwa na Malkiat Sing!! LOL? Hop you see my point? Salvation is about Grace and Faith.. St Paul wrote:Ephesians 2 (read all..context)
8;For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- ..Grace is of God..Faith IS from God too..or his word.. also St Paul wrote:Romans 10(read all..context)
17;Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ You need faith to believe in God..or anything He says.. My issue remains.. many so called believers are liars..the do not believe...unless conveniently to them.. So moral decay can be blamed to either lying "believers"..or ignorant ones..who do not know..hence allow satan and sin to run their lives.. I'm yet to see a born again matatu owner who pays no bribe..whether cash..or in kind..some kick back to OCPD for "Good work"... I blame the pastors.. won't teach on some stuff lest offertory ipungue. ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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No sweat there, brother. The obvious disconnect between the promises God outlines in the bible and the lives of many 'christians' should be able to make us sit up and wonder.
For example, I always wanted to get out of Nairobi to some serene place away from the traffic and congestion in the street. So if such an opportunity has been promised me some day in the future and then before it materialises I get another opportunity to move to Runda and live there will I take it? Runda almost has almost the same quailities I am looking for; greenery, space, quietness etc. But is not the real thing I want, for it is too near Nairobi and I will be experiencing at several points the congestion and traffic.
Thats the dilemma in regards to healing and sickness of christians. Do you want to get healed and stay in this world, and get tempted, or do you want to go and rest and sleep while waiting for the Day of the Lord?
Dont fret about the others. The more you look towards God the less you will see the world, and the fake custodians.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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@Yesuwangu... its jus a case of "His word burning in my bones when i shut up about it." All the same.. God is good..literally.. ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Dont know where to start. I agree and disagree with stuff in your rant. Will do a reply soon. In the meantime, relax and judge less.
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