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Religious (in)tolerance
Magigi
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:56:51 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
Impunity wrote:
Magigi wrote:
...Last Sunday as usual i went for service in my usual church. The preacher at some point took a swipe at a certain religion and condemned the worshippers for waking up at 5 to worship their false God. My question is, should preachers publicly condemn other religions, whether hindu or Muslim or whatever? Should we tell others that they worship a false God? What is religious tolerance all about? As far as I belief what another person worships and believes should not be my business so long as they keep it to themselves. I think preachers should be careful what they say about other religions.


Nini hii?Sad Sad


sawa mzee!!!
Magigi
#12 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:04:26 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
@Magigi you are wrong!!!


...I may be wrong but when you start attacking people who are waiting for such an opportunity to justify their barbaric ways, there is a reason for one to check what comes out of their mouths...
ProverB
#13 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:08:43 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
Hi Magigi..IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF TOLERANCE.. BUT UNBELIEF..


Permit my deviation.. but i trust you will find some insight here.

First.. I'm a christian..and i subscribe to NO religion..

Second .."Christian" was coined as a derogatory term to refer to those who accepted..believed and adhered to the Teachings of one Jesus Christ..calling them "little(or) like Christ" smile

Third..This means the Bible is the basis of my life..as a "little/like Christ" living..

Fourth we all quote Jn 3;16.. and think the essence of salvation is escape hell..and live right and holy and just and merciful... which i agree..but!!

Fifth..in reading the Bible..i emphasize more on what Jesus Christ Himself said..especially to God.. concerning us..

sixth...eternal life.. most believe happens once upon a future.. I don't..

Jn 17:3..This is ETERNAL LIFE..that THEY MAY KNOW YOU the ONLY TRUE GOD, and JESUS CHRIST, whom you have sent.
eternal life starts as soon as you believe and is ongoing to eternity!

Conclude... if eternal life is "knowing God"

[..in the Bible sense of the word..not the sense of the Name of wazua proprietors Knowing Ltd!!! smile]

....then, i will consider only that TEACHING from church that will DRAW me to know God more or be Christlike all the more!

So..where the preacher..like yours talks/teaches/lives in a manner that contradicts Christlikeness...i IGNORE!!!

If my life in Christ is not enough to make you want to know this Christ... then i have NO business talkin of Him let alone pointing out the error of others.. what ur preacher did is akin to a short guy pointing out a shorter one to convince himself he is tall.

Salvation is a life of grace,peace and power through the knowledge of God..if i don't live this..then i lie.. as ur preacher did.. sorry to say.

If i'm healthy..i don't go laughing at those who are sick..

Bytheway..if christ came today..what church would accept Him? Sad
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
the sage
#14 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:20:13 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi
Jus Blazin
#15 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:31:21 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/23/2008
Posts: 3,966
@ProverB, I am with you on that.

Before we go out to accuse others of worshipping false gods, we need to check Christianity itself. We have very many denominations and beliefs that have split us into micro organisations. We have catholics, protestants, anglicans, baptists, mormons, jehovah witnesses, among many others.

Jesus said he came, not only for the jews, but gentiles as well. And he wants us to be like him. To love our neighbours, those who are not like us. To let him be seen in us. That's why we need to appreciate people of different religions and love them. That is what Jesus would have done. On the part of whether they are worshipping the true God, only God can tell.
Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
ProverB
#16 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:38:44 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
the sage wrote:
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi

Applause Applause True... when you know the real Christ..the fake wannabe ones are easy to spot!!! and they so many!! Sad Sad
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
YesuWangu
#17 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:08:13 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
ProverB wrote:
the sage wrote:
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi

Applause Applause True... when you know the real Christ..the fake wannabe ones are easy to spot!!! and they so many!! Sad Sad


The fake christ prophets are so open and so-in-your-face, its impossible to miss them.

Consider Acts 16: 16 onwards. A slave girl with a spirit kept calling after Paul and Silas for all to hear that they "are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved."

The passerby would have noticed and heard her and not Paul and Silas who were inconspicuously going about their commission. That is similar to what is happening today.

Too many people with spirits calling out, diverting people from the real Christ.
bwenyenye
#18 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:26:43 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
Guys Please allow me to C&P something I received the other day in my mail. I found it mind blowing..we are so concerned with trivialties to see the big picture.. read on

"JESUS PLUS NOTHING"-THE CHURCH OF JESUS IS BASED UPON JESUS PLUS NOTHING
March 02, 2011

FOR AUDIO VERSION CLICK HERE.

Since Jesus has been so universally and narrowly identified with Western Christianity, I have found it vital to lift up Jesus out of the Christian box. When Jesus is lifted up out of this box, then all of the religious and non-religious people of the world are welcome to Him. In our experience, when Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Christians and agnostics are able to reframe Jesus high and lifted up above all others and without any religious baggage attached, there is a freedom to genuinely check Him out and follow Him.
Separating Jesus from being owned by any particular religious system seems to be the most important truth that I share. I get more positive responses to this than anything else. Since Jesus was born into the Jewish culture, it might be possible for the Jews to claim Him for themselves, and some do. Since Jesus is the only prophet Mohammad raised up as supernatural, the only one referred to as the "word of God" seven times, the only one born of a virgin, the only one identified as the "clear sign of God" and the only one who is still alive and coming back to earth again, Muslims might be tempted to say that they own Jesus for themselves, and some do. Since the most prominent Hindu leader, Gandhi, held up Jesus as the most holy and complete man who ever lived, Hindus might tend to claim the ways of Jesus as their own, and some do. Since the leader of the Buddhist world, the Dalai Lama, holds up Jesus higher than himself and reveres Jesus in his teachings and writings, Buddhists might claim to be following the ways of Jesus, and some do. Since Jesus has been so closely identified to Christians, it is so easy for Christians to believe that they own Him for themselves, and some do.

But here's the truth. No religious system or culture owns Jesus exclusively. None. The name of Jesus is above all names. And, if Jesus is lifted up, He will draw all men to Him.

What's most encouraging to me is when I meet with a Christian pastor, a Muslim Imam or Sheik, a Buddhist or Hindu monk or nun, or a Jewish Rabbi, their response to my personal story of the spiritual journey I've been on is most often very positive. It's the same with all of them. The simplicity of Jesus is so irresistible and refreshing, IF Jesus only belongs to the God of gods.

Growing up in a very strict religious community with all of its legalistic lists to follow in order to keep God happy, to make certain of heaven and to avoid going to hell, I always felt the heaviness of the religious system. It didn't make sense in so many ways that God would be harsh and demanding to those of us who were brought up on "Jesus loves me". I always felt there must be something more to a relationship with God. Then, in graduate school I came to understand the freedom we all have been given in Jesus. This freedom blew my mind. I was free!

It was through this understanding that I entered into one of the great struggles of my life. Still trying to shed the feelings of guilt from my legalistic past and trying to understand who I was in this new-found relationship with God, I discovered that God made me and wanted me to be exactly who I am with all my weirdness. I felt so "out of place" in the ministry as I compared myself with others-so out of step with the norm. And on a very late-night walk in the snow in Washington DC I had an emotional conversation with God and found the freedom I needed just to be uniquely who God made me. From that day forward I have been on a journey to relate to God "personally" and uniquely.

Several years ago Jesus apprehended my heart in a fresh way and poised me toward taking this same "Jesus plus nothing" message into the 7 major cultures of the world. The more I pondered how to relate Jesus to the cultures of the world, the clearer picture I was given of Jesus. He is the way, the truth and the life-so much more so than I ever thought! Jesus is preeminent.

The attraction of Jesus is His simplicity-Jesus plus nothing. Jesus, simply Jesus, is the foundation of the church or gathering He intended to launch. We tend to complicate Jesus too much. We throw up all sorts of obstacles for people. The better approach is to advance the conversation of Jesus so that people can get to know who this Jesus really is. He's not the scary, weird, otherworldly man you often see in movies. Jesus is for real. People have to get to know Him.

There are three things about Jesus that make Him compelling to anyone who is leaning in with interest: FIRST-Jesus' character is impeccable by all standards. Many people will be attracted to Jesus in this way. Years ago I argued the famous C. S. Lewis chart and reasoning that Jesus was a liar, a lunatic or the Lord. I gave no one room to begin to follow Jesus as a good example. But today I realize this is wrong thinking. His character is a wonderful attraction to people in this world and many times it is the first step in showing a person's interest in following Jesus.

SECOND-Follow the principles of Jesus and you will find meaning and fulfillment. The fundamental principles of life rest with Jesus in the presence of the Kingdom. Most every self-help book or seminar is chocked full of these principles without giving Jesus the credit. Even the highly praised book, The Secret, is straight out of Jesus' game plan for living your life on purpose. In this particular case, the principle is stated and then you're told to focus on and pray to the "universe". This is just another well-intentioned highjacking of Jesus' Kingdom principles. Instead of praying to an impersonal "universe", why not keep the principle in its proper context and pray to the person of Jesus?

THIRD-Continue to follow Jesus and you will find God. The primary example of this is found with the early disciples. It took them several years of following Jesus before they believed He was the Son of God. By the way, this means that there are lots of people out there who are leaning in on following Jesus and His Kingdom principles, but haven't yet come to the conclusion that He is the Son of God. Give them room to follow. In fact, affirm them in their spiritual journey and don't be in a hurry to close the deal with them.

To add anything to Jesus is to complicate Him to the point where He can't be known. Jesus plus anything is actually the spirit of anti-Christ. Anti is literally "instead of", so when you add something to Jesus, it becomes the "instead of" Jesus and diminishes who Jesus really is. The church of Jesus is the movement that revolves around Jesus plus nothing. That's zero, zip, absolutely nothing that can possibly dilute the irresistible Jesus.

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Tim Timmons


email: tim@timtimmons.com
web: http://www.embersfellowship.com

I Think Therefore I Am
YesuWangu
#19 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:04:17 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Mr. Bwenyenye, good for the author he is searching, he will find what he is searching for. He is onto something there. But nothing is trivial in this weighty matter. I take note of this point he makes and agree...
Quote:

In our experience, when Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Christians and agnostics are able to reframe Jesus high and lifted up above all others and without any religious baggage attached, there is a freedom to genuinely check Him out and follow Him.


In related matters, deception is not easy to spot, for that is the point, but if you know the truth, you will spot it.

To deceive those who are eager to follow Jesus, the deceiver gives them something similar to Jesus but not Jesus, having hints and traces, in varying quantities of Jesus but still not Jesus, almost Jesus but still not Jesus. Hence we have the many religions and their respective religious rites, dogmas and so on. You have heard of the the phrase 'Many paths but all lead to God' or something like that, right? Deception there!

To deceive, further, those who are not eager to follow Jesus, the deceiver gives them 'the secret' and such things. I have watched 'the secret' and I have it in my collection, so I know it.

Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the father except through HIM. Are the religions willing to accept that? Are they willing to accept that Jesus is superior to their deities? That is the question. The only question. There cannot be an 'ecumenical Jesus' who caters to all the requirements of the religions and belief systems.

All one needs to know about Jesus has been penned down in the bible, if only people take Him at His word.




kadonye
#20 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:28:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
ProverB wrote:

By the way..if Christ came today..what church would accept Him? Sad


Been wondering about this too.d'oh!

Taking wine, befriending tax collectors(sinners), direct opposition to the imnumerable human laws that we are made to follow...He would be excommunicated mbio mbio!
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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