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Use of mobile phone in an aircraft
brightstar
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:13:00 AM
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Joined: 11/16/2007
Posts: 32
Whats the technical reason for refusing passengers to use their cellphones on commecial flights? I have flown by chopper and used my phone during take off and landing and the pilot did not object. Try that on kq and those waiters will be on your case seriously and they don't know why they have to enforce the stupid rule. Any aviation or communications experts?
And1589
#2 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:54:00 AM
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Joined: 1/9/2009
Posts: 169
Location: Syokimau
@Brightstar
i was going to answer you until i saw you demean Flight attendants ati 'waiters',am in aviation and am abhorred by this.apologies should be in order b4 i answer you!!!

Becoming number one is easier than remaining number one
The Real Shaft
#3 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:00:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
attendants ...

attend to people's needs.....

waiters ....

wait on people.....

the difference is on nomenclature....

I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
Burning Spear
#4 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:16:00 AM
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Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
I guess coz the pilot is in constant communication with control station on the ground and due to limitation of network.......you can jamm the network hahaha.

my two cents

But please apologise for referring to those beautiful ladies as waiters.We associate waiters with food and entertainment joints and people who always con or doctor my beer bill even when am not drunk.

Disclaimer : This is my opinion and not a recommendation.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
Spendthrift
#5 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:26:00 AM
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Joined: 4/26/2008
Posts: 132
Mobile phone = radio device

The safe navigation of an airliner (not helicopter) is dependent on a range of equipment, most of which are radio devices.

Just like the your cell phone will interfere with other simple devices in your house or the operation theatre,it can interfere with the navigation equipment on the flying balloon especially the less modern ones. This is moreso during take of and landing but at cruise level,you can do it undetected....or at least they ignore. Modern planes especially on long haul flights are fitted with equipment that can allow safe use of cellphones but only at cruise.

If you insist and refuse to listen to the attendants,do not be surprised if you are arrested and taken off the plane. This has happened to at least one arrogant person I know at the Kisumu (International) airport.

Don't you be refering to cabin attendants as 'waiter'.



Everyday!
Djinn
#6 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:31:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@brightstar - the fact that you could talk on mobile on a chopper,and the fact that you wanted to on an airplane despite the pre-flight warning...and the fact that you were prevented from doing so (and applying your faulty logic)....does not entitle you to call in flight attendants waiters - they do more than that - they are first aiders,safety experts,nurses,firefighters all rolled into one - they probably have more safety skills than a building caretaker who just needs to break glass or sound a siren.


Anyhow,I think the comms frequencies used in aircraft,esp during for final approach and take off,are within the FM range and affected by the 800-1800 Mhz GSM band. Choppers may use a different frequency...true?

The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
FundamentAli
#7 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:09:00 AM
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Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
There has been a lot of hogwash about mobile phones interfering with the GPS system in an aircraft. This has now been confirmed to be untrue. There is no technical reason not to use a mobile on a plane.

The only problem now is the disturbance/nuisance to the passenger next to you especially on commercial flights. No one is interested in your conversation.


Fundamentals + Sentiments = Position
murenj
#8 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:10:00 AM
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Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 851
Location: nairobi
Long time ago banks alleged that mobile phones interfered with their computers. But now we know this does not lead to data loss. What they will not tell you is that they are fearing that thugs may be informing on a particular client... Hospital authorities would want us to believe that mobiles affect medical equipment eg pace makers. The truth is that a loud conversation may distract the attending physician. Petrol stations used to tell us that a mobile phone can cause a fire. Nothing could be further from the truth. Radio frequencies used by aviation do not fall in the same band as those for gsm. Besides manufacturers of communication gadgets go an extra mile to shield their gadgets

Muthonwa a Agikuyu
Spendthrift
#9 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:33:00 AM
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Joined: 4/26/2008
Posts: 132
@ Murenj.

You could be right. In fact it is common to find telephone services in first class and business class on some carriers such as Continental Airlines,KLM and British Airways. Even Airforce One has telephone,fax e.t.c facilities. But these planes have had to have additional equipment installed to make the operation of this equipment safe.

But there are times when a telephone coming through my cell phone has caused my CD player to stop and as soon at call terminates it,resumed. I have also watched Air Craft Accident investigation where the crash of an airliner in 1995 was partly associated with similar kind of interference. It is believed that the Ground proximity alarm system issued a warning but the warning was delayed for about 13 seconds. The analysis of the red box (black box if you like) indicated that the timing of the alarm and delay period coincided with the timing of a cell phone call made by a passenger. If the pilot had the 13 more seconds to respond to the warning and climb,chances are that the crash would have been averted. 21 people including the passeneger who made the call died but the pilot survived. I am not an eviation systems expert but I believe the warnings have some basis. While would cell phone use be banned by Civil aviation authorities if it was baseless.



Everyday!
Djinn
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:16:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@Spendthrift - 'But these planes have had to have additional equipment installed to make the operation of this equipment safe' - not quite - voice comms can be achived in various ways - what you might have seen on aircraft could be satellite phones (Telkom used to have KenSat - a whole briefcase with a sat phone). I do not think that GSM can work mid-flight,but it could during take off and during take off they use a different frequency to talk to the ATC at the ariport,and after that,another frequency altogether to talk to the civil aviation (that place in Msa road - they talk to all aircraft that enter Kenya's air space,even those over flying - that must be within the HF range). If you know anyone staying in Ngong down (which is where all aircraft are required to start their final approach) - you might have heard that sometimes when someone is searching for an FM station,they sometimes catch the chatter between the pilot and ATC if a plane happens to be positioning itself for final approach over the Ngone hills - I know I have.


my 2 post-recession zim $

The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
McReggae
#11 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:36:00 AM
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Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
The main duty of a flight attendant is security of the passengers,not serving tea so brightstar calling them waiters is abusive and an apology is thus required.

Using your handset can ineterfere with the cummincation equipment installed in the aircraft especially during landing and takeoff when these equipment are paramount for safety of the crew plass the passengers.

Murenj: If your phone has a flight mode then you will realize that when you put it on that mode it does shika network..........Ask yourself why the phone makers did this!!!!!


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..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Gordon Gekko
#12 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:45:00 AM
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Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
My understanding is that a GSM mobile phone requires a BTS (Base Station) to work. Sasa,at 36,000 feet,is BTS within range? I guess not,unless the plane has equipment that will facilitate the relay.
simonkabz
#13 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:57:00 AM
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Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@bs,1st of all tell us why u referred the rule as stupid! Is there sth u knw that we dont? Those who came up with the rule werent mad pple,n yeah,flying aint the same as riding a bicycle! Safety is paramount if the flight is to succeed.

The only reason why some people are still alive is coz its illegal to shoot them!!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
brightstar
#14 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:59:00 AM
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Joined: 11/16/2007
Posts: 32
The subject of discussion is not about the hospitality services guys onboard but the alleged interference by cell phones. Does this also explain why the kq Cameroon crash 2 yrs ago took a whole week to locate coz they could not risk installing a 'car track' device on the plane since it might interfere with the pilots communication system! Ndege sio kite or a DVD player,fm radio ama TV ati it will conc out coz of a ringing phone. I am still not conviced. Peace cabin crews.
wanyo
#15 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:31:00 PM
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Joined: 9/28/2006
Posts: 102
KA should have the attendants say..

Welcome on Board KQ....
This is a no smoking Aircraft....
This is a mobile phone prohibited aircraft...

.....if you are not happy with our policies please alight and never come again..

(that time you is 24,000 ft)
i too
murenj
#16 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:06:00 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 851
Location: nairobi
@mcregae. This has very little to do with communication. Remember the mobile phone and the pilots equipment operate on different frequencies. Hence no jamming. It is true that mobiles enmit strong electromagnetic waves which can be picked up and be converted into very low voltage electric current by electronic components eg induction coils. These fluctuating currents may mimic an electronic signal that may be interpreted otherwise... But electronic engineers are now designing circuits that require a complex coded signal to execute a command. This explains why remote controls of different tv sets can not operate on other sets. I expect aviation equipment to be more sophisticated to withstand electromagnetic interference emitted by lightening and mobile phones.

Muthonwa a Agikuyu
Obi 1 Kanobi
#17 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:16:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Thank God for no phones on planes rule. The people who want to make personal conversations at close proximity to others are firstly obnoxious and generally insensitive.

They would be unbearable inside a plane for 8 hours.

Secondly,for a plane,safety is paramount,if there is debate as to whether mobiles are dangerous,then there use should not be allowed on planes,if one wants to make calls,let him stand anywhere on the ground and call as much as he wants,but when you get into a plane,think about the safety of others and follow the instructions of the cabin crews,even if you feel the are only as good as waiters. Infact there is nothing wrong with waiting on tables,or people.


I've noticed the youth in particular coming in to a workplace with a completely outsized notion of their own value and importance... just a thinly-veiled arrogance. May be the credit crunch induced recession is whats needed to remind us all about the value of hard work.... By Anonymous
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
simonkabz
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:30:00 PM
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Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Dudes,os cof u knw em waves emitted by mobiles induce currents on those wires,resulting in static-like noise. Now imagine 200 pple making kols all at the same time! The pilot not only needs to communicate,bt 2 listen out on other traffic as well. Missing a single critical radio call can b the precursor to ua end/demise. Btw,its important to note that some of those wires run through the fuselage walls. My few rupees.

The only reason why some people are still alive is coz its illegal to shoot them!!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Ali Baba
#19 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:35:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 571
Use of a cellphone in an aircraft MAY interfere with signals emanating from beacons known as ILS aka International Landing System.They allow a pilot to fly in darkness and fog from LHR airport to NBO,get it?? Otherwise,cellphones are banned in aircrafts cos of making noisy conversations to other passengers.I hope they stay banned.

Ali Baba
Musso
#20 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:44:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/11/2007
Posts: 19
The thought of HAAROOOOOOOOOOOOOW here and there every 10mins and an elbow on your face.........................abu just imagine chaotic! i believe this is the reason now,since they have advanced plane gadgets with the years.

Hehe and now with no water.





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