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How much do you save and how do you do it?
2012
#1 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:15:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
In Kenya most of us in middle class live way beyond our means and will never discover wealth. We have loans we can't pay, mortgages that don't make sense, school fees, fuel, expensive entertainment etc.

I hear the formula is to live on 60% of your income and invest the rest, so what's your formula and how do you do it? Please share and let's learn these vital lessons from each other.

BBI will solve it
:)
Dod
#2 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:57:47 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 223
Location: Afghanistan
Saving the whole 40% may be too ambitious for most people...

60%...live on
10%...invest long term
10%...save short term for major/recurrent expenses e.g school fees, insurance, household items etc so that you avoid short term loans and credit card debts
20%...Use to pay debts....If/once debt free, save long term.

Avoid trying to keep up with the Joneses...they are in debt upto their necks!!Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
The rich have money working for them; the poor and the middle class are going to work for money.
K22
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:11:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/12/2008
Posts: 436
Location: illobi
My father told me that saving is a habit that you have to acquire and instill in your genes immediately you get employed.

For example if you are earning 20K and set an objective of saving 20% monthly and follow through, it will be easy to do the same even when earning 100K plus.....

I just wish i listened to him! d'oh! I thought the more one earned the easier it will be to save Shame on you

A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend. A successful woman is one who can find such a man
MaichBlack
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:04:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
2012 wrote:
In Kenya most of us in middle class live way beyond our means and will never discover wealth. We have loans we can't pay, mortgages that don't make sense, school fees, fuel, expensive entertainment etc.

I hear the formula is to live on 60% of your income and invest the rest, so what's your formula and how do you do it? Please share and let's learn these vital lessons from each other.

Make savings a part of you budget. Never imagine you will save what is left after 'other expenses'. It will never happen. Parkinson's second law states: "Expenditure rises to meet income" (You can Google this for more details).

The trick is simple. Starting this month, decide how much you want to be saving every month - a percentage of your salary is better so that your savings can rise with your income. Open a separate bank account and be depositing that amount in that account as soon as you get your salary. Better yet, organize with your accountant to deduct the money at source and send it directly to that account. Use the money in that account for investments only - NOTHING else! This is where you need discipline. And don't get an ATM card for this account!

As for the rest of your expenses, they have to be within the remaining amount. You will definitely need to re-evaluate your expenses and cut costs.

Word of advice:
1.) Raise your savings by a higher margin than your increase in income. For example if you decide to be saving 20% of your salary and your income increases by 10,000/= for example, don't increase your savings by 2,000/=. Go for a higher amount say 4,000/=

2.) More than half of your windfall income - bonuses and other one-off incomes - should go to savings/investments.

3.) Don't let your money 'rot' in the bank. Aggressively look for investment avenues where your money can work for you.

4.) No matter how much (little) you earn, you must save. And never belittle your savings - Haba na Haba hujaza kibaba. If I earn 10k and save 1k or 500/= it might seem little at the beginning but don't forget the eighth wonder of the world - the power of compound interest! Gospel by one Albert Einstein.

Read this short article - Example of compound interest at work
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
livie
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:38:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/1/2008
Posts: 834
@maichblack well said!
If you are going to be thinking only one thing, you might as well be thinking big. -Donald J . Trump
ngatts
#6 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:49:55 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/5/2010
Posts: 15
Location: Nairobi
Whereas I don't actively save, but put money into any "project" that comes my way I like the thoughts @Dod and @Maichblack list. One month I may put all my remaining income after recurrent expenditure into paying off some kashamba, sometimes there's nothing to invest in. I guess it's time I try out a kind of a savings scheme since if something doesn't come up I find I use up everything.
kadonye
#7 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:50:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Nice topic. @2012, saving 40pc of income? I think that is on a higher side unless one is dependent on someone else. I think 10pc minimum is the best. Please dont forget that consumption includes money spent on social items and religious deductions like tithes...and you also need to live and reward your strained body! Me thinks standing orders to a savings account and SACCOs are some of the best ways for someone with financial discipline issues.
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
XSK
#8 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 8:49:42 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 975
Location: Nairobi
ngatts wrote:
Whereas I don't actively save, but put money into any "project" that comes my way I like the thoughts @Dod and @Maichblack list. One month I may put all my remaining income after recurrent expenditure into paying off some kashamba, sometimes there's nothing to invest in. I guess it's time I try out a kind of a savings scheme since if something doesn't come up I find I use up everything.


@Ngatts

I think keeping money aside consistently is the key. Its the so called principle of paying yourself first. This money can be in form of sacco shares or even repaying a loan for a kaplot somewhere!
You will know that you have arrived when money and time are not mutually exclusive "events" in you life!
madhaquer
#9 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 11:23:07 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 281
Location: Nairobi
4 me Savings work well when they are connected to goals.

When putting money into a sacco for instance, the main benefits are two. The ability to borrow against that cash saved (definitely for a bigger project) or the dividends earned against the savings. The only other time that cash can be accessed is when leaving the sacco.

Apart from emergency cash set aside, I find that any savings without a plan will easily be wasted or used up.

I put away a fixed amount each month for my kid's education fund.
I put away some in a sacco to pay existing loans and save to borrow in the future.
I put away some in a unit trust fund that I can cash out in 10 years time.
I put some into the nse
I put some into the spending account that finances the month's expenses (shopping, fuel, etc)
I rarely ever go to the bank everything is in standing orders and I access the spending account through the atm by the 10th that account is empty having distributed cash all over.
When buying a plot or investing in anything substantial, I cash out of my nse portfolio.
Any cash coming in usually goes to reduce existing loans.

It is the goals that drive me otherwise I would be finished without this plans.
2012
#10 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 4:38:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
madhaquer wrote:
I rarely ever go to the bank everything is in standing orders and I access the spending account through the atm by the 10th that account is empty having distributed cash all over.


Which bank are you with? My bank charges 400bob for per standing order and I cannot join those banks that have a monthly fee.


kadonye wrote:
I think that is on a higher side unless one is dependent on someone else. I think 10pc minimum is the best. Please dont forget that consumption includes money spent on social items and religious deductions like tithes...


I tried it and it works but it's a struggle. I need to make some lifestyle adjustments for it to work consistently e.g move to a cheaper area code and obey the Mututho rules.

60/40 of 100k example;

The 60%
Rent 20k
Expenditure 20k
Entertainment 10k
Transport/misc 10k

The 40%
Tithe 10k
Short term savings 10k
Long term savings 10k
Emergency kitty (six month survival) 10k

The Loans
In this concept these payments will obviously come from the 40%. Pay your tithe and use the other 30% to pay off your loans. As the good book says if you have debt you are servant to your lender.

BBI will solve it
:)
kadonye
#11 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 6:01:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
2012 wrote:
madhaquer wrote:
I rarely ever go to the bank everything is in standing orders and I access the spending account through the atm by the 10th that account is empty having distributed cash all over.


Which bank are you with? My bank charges 400bob for per standing order and I cannot join those banks that have a monthly fee.



Where do you bank? NIC has an account with ksh 800 standing charge with limitless standing orders...I dont bank there. I bank with KCB and standing orders are Kes.250.
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
qw25041985
#12 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 7:48:52 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/9/2010
Posts: 1,418
Location: Nai
2012 wrote:
madhaquer wrote:
I rarely ever go to the bank everything is in standing orders and I access the spending account through the atm by the 10th that account is empty having distributed cash all over.


Which bank are you with? My bank charges 400bob for per standing order and I cannot join those banks that have a monthly fee.


kadonye wrote:
I think that is on a higher side unless one is dependent on someone else. I think 10pc minimum is the best. Please dont forget that consumption includes money spent on social items and religious deductions like tithes...


I tried it and it works but it's a struggle. I need to make some lifestyle adjustments for it to work consistently e.g move to a cheaper area code and obey the Mututho rules.

60/40 of 100k example;

The 60%
Rent 20k
Expenditure 20k
Entertainment 10k
Transport/misc 10k

The 40%
Tithe 10k
Short term savings 10k
Long term savings 10k
Emergency kitty (six month survival) 10k

The Loans
In this concept these payments will obviously come from the 40%. Pay your tithe and use the other 30% to pay off your loans. As the good book says if you have debt you are servant to your lender.


@ 2012 LOL Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly . and so far how are u doing
Your future depends on your dreams so go to sleep !
madhaquer
#13 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 10:37:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 281
Location: Nairobi
@qw25041985 I am in co-op bank and so is my sacco account + my expense account. A standing order is 150 bob. Just a beer each. A standing order from co-op bank to another bank is 200 bob. My account is a simple savings deposit with no monthly charges.

I purposed to cut costs for my plans to work consistently, so once my expense account runs out I'm screwed. to avoid that I shop once a month for household items, fuel weekly and use the rest for misc (mainly for tutharing)
BGL
#14 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 12:35:20 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
NSE is my saving account.

The ''Classical Saving culture'' which i define as letting the bank keep my money and pay me 1.45% while if i want a loan i pay 18% plus all sorts of fees is a culture which was never inculcated in me when i was young and growing up!

That said i vowed never to repeat the same mistake. My young children have bank accounts with over 5 zeroes charged by standing orders... i would rather fix it with an overdraft than not to charge their account.... the good thing with this accounts 'Kids' is that they have no charges at all but accumulate some stupidly ridiculously low interest but it sole purpos eis to take care of their educational and other needs. I also have a savings account which is the primary recipient of all the dividends paid but most of the time it is always in red!

All the free money goes to the NSE a 5 zero figure every two months from my checking account. This is what i consider my saving account (NSE Shares) because i can always liquidate and take cash in a week... When i need cash fast enough my credit card takes care of that. I have also developed a culture oof spending is via Credit Cards and paying my bills at the end of the month when i get the statement. Its my checking account dominating the proceedings and sorting out all the major expenses via standing orders.
Most people hate credit cards..... because of the wrong reasons...or because the media potrays them as such....credit cards just makes things easier and unlike a debit card i am cushioned against unauthorised transactions over the internet if the details falls to thugs..... i fell a victim once and i never paid a single cent from the fraudulent transactions amounting to 55K by the time i realised something when my card was rejected as i was shopping at Tuskys and called Visa only to be told that my card was being to purchase airline tickets plus hotel room deposits in Spain.

History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
runjam
#15 Posted : Friday, February 25, 2011 8:36:06 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 73
Location: kenya
2012 wrote:
madhaquer wrote:
I rarely ever go to the bank everything is in standing orders and I access the spending account through the atm by the 10th that account is empty having distributed cash all over.


Which bank are you with? My bank charges 400bob for per standing order and I cannot join those banks that have a monthly fee.


kadonye wrote:
I think that is on a higher side unless one is dependent on someone else. I think 10pc minimum is the best. Please dont forget that consumption includes money spent on social items and religious deductions like tithes...


I tried it and it works but it's a struggle. I need to make some lifestyle adjustments for it to work consistently e.g move to a cheaper area code and obey the Mututho rules.

60/40 of 100k example;

The 60%
Rent 20k
Expenditure 20k
Entertainment 10k
Transport/misc 10k

The 40%
Tithe 10k
Short term savings 10k
Long term savings 10k
Emergency kitty (six month survival) 10k

The Loans
In this concept these payments will obviously come from the 40%. Pay your tithe and use the other 30% to pay off your loans. As the good book says if you have debt you are servant to your lender.


@madhaquer, where does the PAYE fall ?
2012
#16 Posted : Friday, February 25, 2011 11:30:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
runjam wrote:
where does the PAYE fall ?


This is on net not gross. Never count paye it will never be yours but there are ways of reducing what caesar takes eg increasing your pension contribution to 20k and mortgage.
Speak to your accountants, they know things only gods know. Have you ever wondered how those accountants with average salaries have so many lucrative investments? Never tharao them, they know mathings.

BBI will solve it
:)
bwenyenye
#17 Posted : Friday, February 25, 2011 11:34:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
DO I reaaly save? i.e in the context of having a bank account with cash. I don't really think so. Yes I have some little money in the account but I would not call that saving.

@2012, I agree that almost 90% of the middle class are financially the living dead! and could be dead in he next 5 to 10 years. I tried to bring that up here in a thread on 'car maintenance high' but I was shouted down.

Now how do I save? I am not afraid of loans. I realise that there are good and bad loans. I do not borrow to further lifestyle i.e cars, school fees, clothing, holidays etc. I borrow and invest ( not on high risk investments like speculation at the NSE) I look for real estate, bonds etc.E.g , I borrowed to buy the Kengen bond. Yes it looked rediculous to many to borrow @16% and earn at 12%. But I saw it differently, I am saving for my kids fund. I pay for 4 years and earn for 10 years after which I still get my savings back to reinvest. Technically I may never need to earn for my kids fees again if I invest the proceeds well. To me, that is how I save.

I think about 70% of my household income goes to such activities every month.
I Think Therefore I Am
Muthawamunene
#18 Posted : Friday, February 25, 2011 12:38:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/3/2011
Posts: 264
Location: Nairobi
20 year old student. parents not paul wanderi and martha stewart (though i wish they were) i save 1k a month and bottom feed on the nse.
MaichBlack
#19 Posted : Friday, February 25, 2011 8:26:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
Muthawamunene wrote:
20 year old student. parents not paul wanderi and martha stewart (though i wish they were) i save 1k a month and bottom feed on the nse.

Congrats. See my post above [post #4] and click on the link at the end and see the power of compound interest.

By the way, most wazuans were not investing/saving at 20 so you are doing very well for yourself. And what's more, by the time you get big money, you'll already have the knowledge/expertise/experience and the mindset to save and invest. Your kids will not wish Paul Wanderi was their father coz their real father/mother [not sure] - @Muthawamunene - will be doing much better. That's my prayer for you
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Cde Monomotapa
#20 Posted : Friday, February 25, 2011 10:04:24 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
MaichBlack wrote:
Muthawamunene wrote:
20 year old student. parents not paul wanderi and martha stewart (though i wish they were) i save 1k a month and bottom feed on the nse.

Congrats. See my post above [post #4] and click on the link at the end and see the power of compound interest.

By the way, most wazuans were not investing/saving at 20 so you are doing very well for yourself. And what's more, by the time you get big money, you'll already have the knowledge/expertise/experience and the mindset to save and invest. Your kids will not wish Paul Wanderi was their father coz their real father/mother [not sure] - @Muthawamunene - will be doing much better. That's my prayer for you

AMEN!!
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