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milken
#1321 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 5:42:12 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 192
Location: Nairobi
@ 2012
KPC is a utility, a transporter and a storage facility with limited capacity. They offer their services to all oil companies on a standard shippers agreement. Sensibly then, how can you guarantee all the OMC's in Kenya that you will give them storage? What would happen if all of them import product at the same time? What happens when there is power outage that disrupts pumping which inturn affects space (ullage)?

KK has a joint facility in Shimanzi but it is not connnected to KPC system hence even if they did own one how would they transport to Nairobi? Do you think other oil companies would allow KK to pump fromtheir depot to The main pipeline at their expense?

While it is true that KPC allocated unfair ullage to KPC, KK sabotaged an joint industry approach by withdrawing from the ullage committee.
Itari muting'oe ihuragwo ngi ni Ngai
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Gordon Gekko
#1322 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 5:47:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
BGL wrote:
KPC is 'TOO BIG' to go under! I think as long as it remains a parastatal it will continue to be mismanaged and the guts to label the demands of KK as wishful thinking.

Privatisation either via the NSE or strategic partner should bring in some professionalism.


Arthur Andersen (28,000 strong US workforce) was 'TOO BIG' to go under!d'oh!
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youcan'tstopusnow
#1323 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 7:28:47 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
VVS, who would you put your money on to be the next African despot to vacate power? Sub Saharan Africa tusiwachwe nyuma na hii revolution
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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VituVingiSana
#1324 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:03:59 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,380
Location: Nairobi
milken wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:

1) So coz JS sued corrupt/inefficient KPC makes him a thug? Please explain.
2) KPC is in charge of ullage - obviously you haven't read the case - & they over-allocated space to Triton [now you will tell me devani was an angel] i.e. KK was locked out coz Triton had more fuel in the tanks than their ullage allocation.
3) LOL... So if a bully beats 5 kids. Then 1 has had enough & fight back, you call the fighter a thug? The other OMCs were wimps. KK stood & fought the bully [KPC]
4) So Ahmed was the arbitrator by default. So what? It was part of the Agreement. That's what Agreements are for. As someone said... the court could have kicked it out OR reduced it & have done neither so far.


1. This is guy who has been MD and chair for over five years and who wields more power than the entire board. Have you seen anything like a board committee in their annual reports? Is it a coincidence that only KK has managed to fight with MOE, KPRL, KPC at the same time? I have dealt with him a number of times and can vouch for his thuggish character.

False - I will discuss this matter but after you have the facts straightened out. If you insist you have the correct facts then I can't help except direct Wazuans following this thread to the Annual Reports for the past 5 years some available on the website.
*** Personal question: Why did you deal with him more than once AFTER you thought he was thuggish?

2. You are the one who has no clue here. While it is true that KPC overallocated ullage to Triton, the shippers agreement does not guarantee anybody ullage hence KK cannot say that they were denied ullage. (It is common practise all over the world that utilities can not be sued for inciderntal losses occassioned by their inability to supply the service).

So it is true KPC over-allocated ullage to Triton. Sounds like an admission by KPC of wrong-doing. Why did they do so?
Is the Shippers Agreement btwn KK & KPC a standard document/agreement? If yes, can you get me a copy? [I will pay for any reasonable expenses]
I have NOT seen the contract between KPC & KK but I assume the courts have looked at it. Is it a public document?

3. The other marketers did not chicken out but they listned to their lawyers who looked at the agreement and told them that they did not have a point. JIS ignored that Refer to number 1.
All lawyers are not equal. All CEOs are not equal. Some are simply better than others.
Are the Shipping Agreements 'standard' across all OMCs & KPC?
Does KPC have no SLA or obligation to perform? [Or is it a matter of if we (KPC) do not do what we said we will, mta do?]

4. Again you demonstrate some ignorance of the matter here. KPC lodged an appeal of the arbitrators award but KK contended that before the appeal is heard, KPC should deposit the award in an escow a/c. The court oblidged as this is the common practice so that one does not have to go to the court again to have the other bugger compelled to pay if he loses. Deposit the award is done on a without prejudice basis and will not influence the outcome of the court ruling.
Please educate me. Wonderful. So what KK asked for (& court granted) is in line with 'common' practice i.e. deposit the cash/assets/bond into an escrow before an Appeal is heard.
My question: What if KPC does not follow the 'common' practice as ordered by the Court?


Does anyone know whether KPC deposited the KES 4.6 - 5.2bn as ordered by the Court?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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VituVingiSana
#1325 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:24:46 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,380
Location: Nairobi
milken wrote:
@ 2012
KPC is a utility, a transporter and a storage facility with limited capacity. They offer their services to all oil companies on a standard shippers agreement. Sensibly then, how can you guarantee all the OMC's in Kenya that you will give them storage? What would happen if all of them import product at the same time? What happens when there is power outage that disrupts pumping which inturn affects space (ullage)?
I thought imports had to be coordinated if you used common facilities e.g. KPC or KOSF. No ovyo ovyo imports. KK claims its imports were scheduled imports. Were Triton's scheduled imports?
Pumping - Shouldn't KPC have backup generators? Seems sensible since power cuts are/were common in Kenya.
KK claims the ullage was blocked for a long time. I think 1 month {not sure). I doubt there was no power at KPC pumping stations for 1 month

KK has a joint facility in Shimanzi but it is not connnected to KPC system hence even if they did own one how would they transport to Nairobi? Do you think other oil companies would allow KK to pump fromtheir depot to The main pipeline at their expense?

KK transports a lot of fuel by Road. All the deliveries from South coast to Lamu are done by road.
Also deliveries as far as Machakos are often done by road from SOT & Changanwe.
The joint facility at SOT [with Total but I may be mistaken] is used for private imports for local sales + exports.

While it is true that KPC allocated unfair ullage to KPC, KK sabotaged an joint industry approach by withdrawing from the ullage committee. So you do admit that KPC allocated unfair ullage to Triton [u say KPC but I think you meant Triton]. Seems a clear-cut case of wrongdoing by KPC regardless of all the rest.


Of course, what I would like to know is whether you think KPC (or its employees) was not at fault for releasing Fuel to Triton AGAINST the provisions of the CPA.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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VituVingiSana
#1326 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 11:01:26 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,380
Location: Nairobi
A rise in prices expected. How much?
http://www.businessdaily...1/-/ovo8xvz/-/index.html
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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2012
#1327 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 12:46:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
milken wrote:
Sensibly then, how can you guarantee all the OMC's in Kenya that you will give them storage? What would happen if all of them import product at the same time? What happens when there is power outage that disrupts pumping which inturn affects space (ullage)?


Then maybe KPC is chewing more than they can take. They should allow private companies to compete if they cannot as vvs said afford a generator and give clear guarantees to the importers on allocation. This I beleive would even bring the cost of pump prices down.

BBI will solve it :)
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milken
#1328 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 1:05:24 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 192
Location: Nairobi
[quote=VituVingiSana]A rise in prices expected. How much?
http://www.businessdaily.../-/ovo8xvz/-/index.html[/quote]

FOLLOW LINK

http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...s&t=11020#post148604
Itari muting'oe ihuragwo ngi ni Ngai
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Tommy
#1329 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 1:46:41 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/9/2010
Posts: 894
Location: Nairobi
[quote=VituVingiSana]A rise in prices expected. How much?
http://www.businessdaily.../-/ovo8xvz/-/index.html[/quote]
This article is saying that petrol is set to hit Kshs 100. That will be very high
Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:48 PM | Reason: Not specified
VituVingiSana
#1330 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 2:08:55 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,380
Location: Nairobi
@milken - Please see my comments & questions above re: KPC, Triton, OMCs
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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