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KENOL/KOBIL
2012
#1301 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:54:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
jerry wrote:
Methinks the best option is to enjoin KK inthe ownership of KPC and let KK manage KPC until they(KK) recover their 4.6B. If the order is to auction, both KK and KPC will lose out. KPC will lose more than KK and KK cannot bid in the auction.


Never. The govt. can and should never allow that and has no choice but to come to their aid.

BBI will solve it
:)
milken
#1302 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:02:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 192
Location: Nairobi
I know most of you will rap me for saying this.
KK has no point in law and surely that award by Ahmed Nassir will be overturned by the courts. The fact that KK has a shippers agreement with KPC does not guarantee it exclusivity in so far a product storage is concerned. Had that award been made by a competent judge may be we would be talking.
Itari muting'oe ihuragwo ngi ni Ngai
berbatov
#1303 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:18:07 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 2/10/2011
Posts: 2
Location: berbatov
Oh yes !! Very good ^^"
The difference between people like to play. Holiday Palace play with Holiday Palace: he is not free and equal.
jerry
#1304 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:50:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
berbatov wrote:
Oh yes !! Very good ^^"

@berbatov; welcome to the powerhouse of knowledge. I suggest you join the fantastic fuNtaSEy market right away. @milken. How did they end up with Ahmed as an arbitrator? Did the court not uphold the decision arrived at in the arbitration process?
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
milken
#1305 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:12:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 192
Location: Nairobi
The shippers agreement provides for appointment of an arbitrator in case of a dispute before going to courts. In the absence on concurrence (not consultation) on who the arbiter should be, the agreement provides that the chair of LSK will be the arbiter. At the time that chair was Ahmed. It not only KK who were affected by ullage mismanagement but other oil companies decided that they had a weak argument when they looked at the agreement. However, JIS being the thug he is decided to sue KPC and the rest is history.
Itari muting'oe ihuragwo ngi ni Ngai
mlennyma
#1306 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:16:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,192
Location: nairobi
My 5bob purchase order incase this money flops.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
BGL
#1307 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:31:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
.
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
Gatheuzi
#1308 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:12:10 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/16/2009
Posts: 994
Let the assets be sold, I am a tax payer but perhaps we don't need some of these parastatals. It is just about time KPC learnt a lesson or two about respect for the law - just makes me wonder could KCB and other Triton finaciers have recovered their funds by attaching KPC assets?
Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
jerry
#1309 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:33:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
BGL wrote:
In as much as we want to make money....pushing greed to the extreme makes no sense at all!
As a taxpayer and many of you here, if KK goes ahead to attach KPC assets we will only make the situation even worse.
mark my words! KK gets absolutely nothing from taxpayers money (KPC) i am a taxpayer.

@BGL;But then KPC should be run professionally for the benefit of all stakeholders. Having said that, I think KPC should generate revenue so that the taxes you pay are less. It should not be funded by taxes, instead it should be run to generate income to the exchequer!
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
BGL
#1310 Posted : Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:45:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
KPC is 'TOO BIG' to go under! I think as long as it remains a parastatal it will continue to be mismanaged and the guts to label the demands of KK as wishful thinking.

Privatisation either via the NSE or strategic partner should bring in some professionalism.
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
VituVingiSana
#1311 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 8:12:38 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
@jerry - Why can't KK bid in the auction?

Banks are allowed to bid in foreclosures as well as are the owners. The bottomline is the highest price paid.

If KK bids the highest say 6bn then KPC's former owners [aka GoK] gets the 1.4bn change i.e. KK has to write a cheque/RTGS the balance!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
For Sport
#1312 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 12:35:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
mlennyma wrote:
My 5bob purchase order incase this money flops.


keep dreaming.
VituVingiSana
#1313 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 12:51:26 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
milken wrote:
The shippers agreement provides for appointment of an arbitrator in case of a dispute before going to courts. In the absence on concurrence (not consultation) on who the arbiter should be, the agreement provides that the chair of LSK will be the arbiter. At the time that chair was Ahmed. It not only KK who were affected by ullage mismanagement but other oil companies decided that they had a weak argument when they looked at the agreement. However, JIS being the thug he is decided to sue KPC and the rest is history.

1) So coz JS sued corrupt/inefficient KPC makes him a thug? Please explain.
2) KPC is in charge of ullage - obviously you haven't read the case - & they over-allocated space to Triton [now you will tell me devani was an angel] i.e. KK was locked out coz Triton had more fuel in the tanks than their ullage allocation.
3) LOL... So if a bully beats 5 kids. Then 1 has had enough & fight back, you call the fighter a thug? The other OMCs were wimps. KK stood & fought the bully [KPC]
4) So Ahmed was the arbitrator by default. So what? It was part of the Agreement. That's what Agreements are for. As someone said... the court could have kicked it out OR reduced it & have done neither so far.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1314 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 12:53:23 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
Gatheuzi wrote:
Let the assets be sold, I am a tax payer but perhaps we don't need some of these parastatals. It is just about time KPC learnt a lesson or two about respect for the law - just makes me wonder could KCB and other Triton finaciers have recovered their funds by attaching KPC assets?
Amen! Look at the scams at NCPB or other parastatals... Makes 4.6bn look like petty cash!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mlennyma
#1315 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 3:30:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,192
Location: nairobi
Am sure its just a matter of time you see the enemies of kk one kiraitu and nyoike intervening to spoil the party.they must have cooked smthing by now...gava??
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
bird_man
#1316 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 4:35:56 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
I dont understand why this is the most discussed share on Wazua.Strange.
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
nahdy
#1317 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 4:39:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/29/2006
Posts: 184
@mtu ndege .... i wish u could see the jewel in this counter ...
milken
#1318 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 4:41:44 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 192
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:

1) So coz JS sued corrupt/inefficient KPC makes him a thug? Please explain.
2) KPC is in charge of ullage - obviously you haven't read the case - & they over-allocated space to Triton [now you will tell me devani was an angel] i.e. KK was locked out coz Triton had more fuel in the tanks than their ullage allocation.
3) LOL... So if a bully beats 5 kids. Then 1 has had enough & fight back, you call the fighter a thug? The other OMCs were wimps. KK stood & fought the bully [KPC]
4) So Ahmed was the arbitrator by default. So what? It was part of the Agreement. That's what Agreements are for. As someone said... the court could have kicked it out OR reduced it & have done neither so far.




1. This is guy who has been MD and chair for over five years and who wields more power than the entire board. Have you seen anything like a board committee in their annual reports? Is it a coincidence that only KK has managed to fight with MOE, KPRL, KPC at the same time? I have dealt with him a number of times and can vouch for his thuggish character.

2. You are the one who has no clue here. While it is true that KPC overallocated ullage to Triton, the shippers agreement does not guarantee anybody ullage hence KK cannot say that they were denied ullage. (It is common practise all over the world that utilities can not be sued for inciderntal losses occassioned by their inability to supply the service).

3. The other marketers did not chicken out but they listned to their lawyers who looked at the agreement and told them that they did not have a point. JIS ignored that Refer to number 1.

4. Again you demonstrate some ignorance of the matter here. KPC lodged an appeal of the arbitrators award but KK contended that before the appeal is heard, KPC should deposit the award in an escow a/c. The court oblidged as this is the common practice so that one does not have to go to the court again to have the other bugger compelled to pay if he loses. Deposit the award is done on a without prejudice basis and will ot influence the outcome of the court ruling.
Itari muting'oe ihuragwo ngi ni Ngai
2012
#1319 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 5:01:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
milken wrote:
the shippers agreement does not guarantee anybody ullage hence KK cannot say that they were denied ullage.


What do you mean?
They have a contract on that otherwise why would any normal person want to enter into that business without that guarantee? If KPC didn't offer that guarantee I'm sure KK would have their own oil depot by now.

BBI will solve it
:)
jerry
#1320 Posted : Friday, February 11, 2011 5:01:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
bird_man wrote:
I dont understand why this is the most discussed share on Wazua.Strange.

@bird_man. It is about one man's determination to end the culture of impunity in GoK corridors with huge implications on business with outside world. If Kenya can't obey simple rules of contract then how will it do business with investor/financiers/partners. It is about confidence in rule of law.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
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