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Settlement Date = T+3
VituVingiSana
#1 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 2:21:48 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
Starting 18 March 2011, the Settlement Date will be T+3 [vs T+4]. Good news for traders.

Hopefully, they will go towards T+0 by 2012. I hate waiting for my cash after I sell though have to pay upfront when I want to buy shares!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
jerry
#2 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:09:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
Should be T+2. Cheques ni T+4?? Should also come down.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
VituVingiSana
#3 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:15:02 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
jerry wrote:
Should be T+2. Cheques ni T+4?? Should also come down.
Trades should be T+0. RTGS is T+0 but pricey & cumbersome. I think chqs will come down to T+3 by 2012. Paper remains 'inefficient' but cheaper for now.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
kyt
#4 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:08:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
How much is an rtgs 4 a million?
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
youcan'tstopusnow
#5 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:13:30 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Announcing a T+3 is still dissapointing. I thought we had some Indians working on the NSE system. Ama what is 'missing' for the NSE to be T+0?
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
VituVingiSana
#6 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:13:47 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
kyt wrote:
How much is an rtgs 4 a million?
500/- but the annoying part is having to go into a branch to do it. Whether this means sending someone there or going by yourself!

Please note I think the 'risk' of fraud is HIGHER with an RTGS

1) My chqbook is in a safe place. I do not leave it lying around. My letterhead can be copied by a good color photocopier OR printed in a River Road shop!

2) There is a NUMBER for every chq. It is [or should be unique] so easy to keep track of. Most accounting software uses the concept of paying by chqs [i.e. a unique number]. How unique are RTGS instructions?

3) I can 'STOP PAYMENT' a chq if there is fraud i.e. missing chq, non-delivery of goods, etc

Anyway, KShs 1,000,000 for many businesses [& individuals] is NOTHING to write home about with the inflation we have seen! Only 500 TranCentury shares!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
K22
#7 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:25:58 PM
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Joined: 9/12/2008
Posts: 436
Location: illobi
Bwana VVS, most banks have call back process for any transactions above a certain threshold and have e-alerts after the transactions goes through. Personally i think RTGS are better than cheques(which nowadays can also be printed in riva rori)

A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend. A successful woman is one who can find such a man
youcan'tstopusnow
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:35:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
VVS cheques are on their way out. In Britain by 2018. I hope Kenya follows soon. I agree with K22. Hii mambo ya kuweka kakitabu tuache. We need to adapt
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
VituVingiSana
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:42:36 PM
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Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
K22 wrote:
Bwana VVS, most banks have call back process for any transactions above a certain threshold and have e-alerts after the transactions goes through. Personally i think RTGS are better than cheques(which nowadays can also be printed in riva rori)
So I write a chq... I get a callback [true, they do call me] but an RTGS might go thru undetected?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:46:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
VVS cheques are on their way out. In Britain by 2018. I hope Kenya follows soon. I agree with K22. Hii mambo ya kuweka kakitabu tuache. We need to adapt
I do not like the charges associated with the RTGS. 500/- per Million sounds minimal but the cost with the delivery [send to Bank or go there myself] is painful!

Also the RTGS has more paperwork for me than a cheque!!! Thus moreconvenient to pay someone by chq!

M-Pesa/Zap = Max 100,000/- & pricey
Debit Cards = Max 30,000 [on mine]. There is a fee per use.
Credit Cards = Well... It is a credit card & some establishments charge a use fee or add 5%
RTGS = Hassle!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#11 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:00:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
CFC cheque pays same day...you only need to pay 200 bob.
jerry
#12 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:09:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
Announcing a T+3 is still dissapointing. I thought we had some Indians working on the NSE system. Ama what is 'missing' for the NSE to be T+0?

@YCSUN; I think there was some software link that was to be installed at NSE to facilitate some "communication & settlement" of trades. Not so sure though but there must be some exchange of cash between brokers, NSE... after trading.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
chaliwong
#13 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:13:19 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/10/2010
Posts: 73
Location: kenya
Cheques are beeing faced out polepole. TZ is almost there.
Currently you are not allowed to draw a cheque exceeding 999K unless its beeing paid out to an account within your own bank.

RTGS is also old school and is not real time and most banks have upgraded their IT platforms and have started rolling out internet banking where you will be doing all your transactions real time at the comfort of your PC.
All you need is an email address and a PIN that will be provided by your bank.
Once you transact via internet a confirmation will be done from the contact centre.And just like Mpesa the PIN will be the security for your money.
But one thing I know for sure, interbank cheque transactions are beeing faced out polepole.
VituVingiSana
#14 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:20:06 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
@chaliwong - The issue is NOT when you use the same bank [since these transactions are same day or real time] but when you have interbank transactions.

I can issue a chq for 1.1mn & you bank it in the SAME bank e.g. a chq on Equity can be banked in Equity even if in excess of 1mn.

For smaller/lesser amounts using RTGS or EFT [2 biz days] is pricey! BTW, I hate EFTs coz some banks charge an INCOMING fee too!

Chqs are here to stay for a few more years. Just like those who thought physical currency will go away. It has not. The % has reduced compared to total money supply but still an integral part of our system!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
jerry
#15 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:42:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
@Chaliwong; I would luv to have internet banking platform. Is it available to individuals or only to corporate A/C-holders?
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
MatataMingi
#16 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:07:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 398
Location: Where everyone knows you
@ Jerry.
You can have internet banking with quite a few banks as an indivdual.
I have it with SCB & CBA.
However, at the moment you can only check balances / transactions etc.
You can move money between your accounts - but not to another account in the bank or to a another Bank..
I like the system , but would like to see it giving me more options - like online systems in the West.

Hope this helps.
chaliwong
#17 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:15:16 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/10/2010
Posts: 73
Location: kenya
Internet banking is available to all transactional accounts whether corporate or individual accounts.
That is current accounts and salary accounts, or lets say, any account that is ATM compatible.
For now, as pilot runs are being done you can transfer up to 500K to an acount of your choice in kenya and soon you will do the same to an account that is any where in the world.
When fully operational you will be able to transfer any amount.

Still on the issue of cheques,You can bank an Equity cheque of 100M to another Equity bank Account and it will clear ASAP.
But in line with with the CBK directive from the governer himself that Banks should reduce their cost of doing business(some have started by laying off staff),with new technologies you find that the cost of manufacturing cheque books,cheque processing/clearing is a cost that can be done away with completely.This are costs that are passed on to customers.

Also pay a visit to (I Think court room No.14) of the Kenyan high courts in Nairobi and you will wish cheques are done away with today.
Cheque fraud cases are so many and the fraudsters themselves are so smart. A majority of them dont even have lawyers representing them.
They represent themselves competently enough giving you a sense that they really know what they are doing.
80% of the cases are heard when the fraudsters have already cashed the cheques.


youcan'tstopusnow
#18 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:21:53 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
chaliwong, I guess this is the kind of thing you are talking about. www.businessdailyafrica..../-/117e61ez/-/index.html
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
chaliwong
#19 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 10:26:09 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/10/2010
Posts: 73
Location: kenya
This is what I'm talking about.

You are out of the country and you have left 3 or 4 lumpsum cheques written in favour of "Day Solution Limited" who are your suppliers.
But the entrusted accountant at Day Solution steals the cheques and carefully alters the cheques to read "ToDay Solutions Limited"
It only takes a day or two to register a company which he does using the fraudulent name.
Once the company is registerd he walks into a local bank and opens an account in the same fraudulent name. The bank will do a search before opening the account at the regitars office, they will find that the name is genuin and the owner is the same as the one on the ID.

Once the account is opened he will deposit the cheques,and once they clear withdraw the funds and take off.
The cheques will hit your account and you wont notice because the cheque numbers will tally with those you wrote Day solution Limited.

If Day solutions limited is a very busy company they will realise that this payments were never made during their next Audit which may be six months after the fraud.

Okay,you could say the burden lies with Days Solutios since it was their employee, but remember you could also have written the cheque and lost it before you paid it out and you never realised until one month later.
You could also have entrusted employees who can do the same to cheques paid to you.
jerry
#20 Posted : Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:28:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
MatataMingi wrote:
@ Jerry.
You can have internet banking with quite a few banks as an indivdual.
I have it with SCB & CBA.
However, at the moment you can only check balances / transactions etc.
You can move money between your accounts - but not to another account in the bank or to a another Bank..
I like the system , but would like to see it giving me more options - like online systems in the West.

Hope this helps.

@matataMingi, thanks. @chaliwong, any examples of banks in Kenya offering internet banking across banks?
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
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