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Manifest Nonsense!!!!
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,702
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Forget the politics, forget your feelings about who you think is guilty or not. Look at the merits of this case from the eyes of a judge sitting in the Hague and who does not know whether Kenya is in Nairobi or Nairobi is in Kenya, does not know who ODM or PNU are and has never heard of Ruto, Uhuru, Muthaura, Sang, Kosgey or Ali and you will agree that the case this Moreno fellow has presented is manifest nonsense. The incompetence exhibited here by this individual is shocking to say the least. I had my doubts about him from the beginning when he could not express himself clearly in English but I gave him the benefit of the doubt thinking that maybe he thought more clearly in his native Spanish but alas the dumbness in him is real. I am no Lawyer but I remember having discussions with Law students and even an average 2nd year Law Student at Parklands will tell you that this: http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc985613.pdf
http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc985621.pdf
is rubbish. This kind of presentation would not pass a 2nd year Law exam leave alone be fit for presentation to an international court. This man is a disgrace to the ICC. He would not light a candle to such prosecutors as Carla Del Ponte of the United Nations Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia and Rwanda. If the judges accept this and issue summons it will just confirm to my mind that this ICC thing is just a circus because from a serious judicial process it is embarassingly substandard.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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Dr Kusadikika. Wacha madharau.lets hear what the judges have to say.milesovisc died in hague.taylor is in hague. The prosecutor has been none other than ocampo.the g uy knows his job. punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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the guy knows his job? he has never indicted anyone...has any of you ever worked with the UN? bogus organ... All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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Ocampo also decided to use the word PNU as a replacement of the word Kikuyu.PNU youth,PNU supporters... What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2010 Posts: 906 Location: Nairobi
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@kusadikika prepare for a shock. This ICC thing is about much more than justice. When Kenya chose Hague route, it wasn't that we were going for the flawless, absolute justice option. We were just choosing between bad and worse. Trust me, kama ingekuwa Local Tribunal, you would have suffered multiple heart attacks and strokes combined at the same time 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,702
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newfarer wrote:Dr Kusadikika. Wacha madharau.lets hear what the judges have to say.milesovisc died in hague.taylor is in hague. The prosecutor has been none other than ocampo.the g uy knows his job. More about the Milosevic case. Prosecutor was Carla del Ponte, a hundred times more competent than Ocampo and even then they screwed it up big time. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/w...tqc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/w...w-Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/w...3og&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/w...7Os&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/w...VZc&feature=related
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,702
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kadonye wrote:Ocampo also decided to use the word PNU as a replacement of the word Kikuyu.PNU youth,PNU supporters... Look even at the information he puts up about the witnesses. The profile on Sang is no more than what Magigi posted for us by getting the guys page on Graduates.com. So what more research or investigations did he perform. The list of suspects and charges are like someone pointed out here a copy and paste of the Kenya Human Rights report. Surely from all his hot air talk I was hoping the man has done some investigation and dug up things we did not already know. Sasa where the man has jichanganyad kabisa is as Kadonye mentioned using the words PNU and ODM supporters and trying to be politically correct by avoiding naming tribes. The man clearly does not understand the background information and genesis of the post election violence. He cannot put the violence or the crimes he is purpoting to investigate in context. Note how he casually uses the word Mungiki. If the judges were to just even ask for a definition of what that is I doubt Moreno would be able to even begin to explain. This presentation is not based on any more information than anyone would have picked up from a Nairobi pub drinking beer and overhearing any two Kenyans talk about the post election violence. I dismissed the two "fake ICC witnesses" who came forth saying they were paid by Hassan but I read these reports by Ocampo and I cannot help but start to believe them. Another issue here. Since when did a prosecutor charged with investigating a crime, international or not seek to achieve balance? By that I mean, the need to equally distribute the blame on both sides. This is the height of this nonsense. If a crime was committed, you investigate and dig up the facts and then form your case. You do not start by saying you want to have X suspects from this side and X suspects from that side and then dig up information to justify your stand. Utter, unadulterated nonsense!!!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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do people know what the local tribunal was supposed to be? its not a court!! another chink (look at this incompetence)...considering PNU was formed on 16 September 2007 and in 2006, akina Ruto were in ODM-KENYA then before they bought a party from Mugambi Imanyara and defected to it on 15 August 2007. thus the statement As early as December 2006, WILLIAM SAMOEI RUTO ("RUTO") and HENRY KIPRONO KOSGEY ("KOSGEY"), prominent leaders of the Orange Democratic Movement ("ODM") political party, began preparing a criminal plan to attack those identified as supporters of the Party of National Unity ("PNU"). is contextually wrong. since you cannot be a leader of a party you have not joined and plan attacks on members of a hitherto non-existent party. it should read..... As early as December 2006, WILLIAM SAMOEI RUTO ("RUTO") and HENRY KIPRONO KOSGEY ("KOSGEY"), prominent leaders of the Kalenjin tribe, began preparing a criminal plan to attack those identified as belonging to the Kikuyu and Kisii tribes IN RIFT VALLEY. is correct. these fellows are incompetent coz they know nothing about Kenya...Nothing. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@newfarer... Taylor was prosecuted by Stephen Rapp. Ocampo botched a militia leader's open and shut case... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_LubangaAll Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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@maskums, i like your argument, but maybe MO was avoiding using the tribe name....
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/6/2009 Posts: 108 Location: nairobi
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tukubaliane Ocampo ni kelele tu,he set out to make kenya an example without reviewing the evidence.sasa ona. if you aint livin on the edge,you are taking too much space....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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Kusadikika wrote:Forget the politics, forget your feelings about who you think is guilty or not. Look at the merits of this case from the eyes of a judge sitting in the Hague and who does not know whether Kenya is in Nairobi or Nairobi is in Kenya, does not know who ODM or PNU are and has never heard of Ruto, Uhuru, Muthaura, Sang, Kosgey or Ali and you will agree that the case this Moreno fellow has presented is manifest nonsense. The incompetence exhibited here by this individual is shocking to say the least. I had my doubts about him from the beginning when he could not express himself clearly in English but I gave him the benefit of the doubt thinking that maybe he thought more clearly in his native Spanish but alas the dumbness in him is real. I am no Lawyer but I remember having discussions with Law students and even an average 2nd year Law Student at Parklands will tell you that this: http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc985613.pdf
http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc985621.pdf
is rubbish. This kind of presentation would not pass a 2nd year Law exam leave alone be fit for presentation to an international court. This man is a disgrace to the ICC. He would not light a candle to such prosecutors as Carla Del Ponte of the United Nations Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia and Rwanda. If the judges accept this and issue summons it will just confirm to my mind that this ICC thing is just a circus because from a serious judicial process it is embarassingly substandard. During this time, he was also an Associate Professor of criminal law at the University of Buenos Aires and a visiting professor at Stanford University and Harvard Law School.[1] Source: wikipedia Kusadikika ,Ocampo is actually a DR here is his CV http://www.europarl.euro...03/20100323ocampo_en.pdfpunda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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[quote=masukuma]@newfarer... Taylor was prosecuted by Stephen Rapp. Ocampo botched a militia leader's open and shut case... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Lubanga[/quote] On 21 April 2003, Moreno-Ocampo was elected unopposed as the first Prosecutor of the new International Criminal Court.[2][3] He was sworn in for a nine-year term on 16 June 2003. As of February 2009, he has opened investigations into four situations: Northern Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the Central African Republic and Darfur.[6] T he court has issued public arrest warrants for twelve people; six of them remain free, two have died, and four are in custody.Hata ukijaribu kuzima taa ya Ocampo , Ni kibaya punda amecheka
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 182 Location: Kenya
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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@Kusadikika, this prosecutor may not be perfect. Give me one of our own who is. The mix up and use of PNU-ODM instead of Kalenjin/Luo etc versus Kikuyu/Kissii etc is pathetic. He could introduce simmering historical background of "tribal clashes could make his charge sheet more credible" That said I beg to differ with your interpretation. One thing that Kenyan lawyers have perfected with our twisted judiciary is the use of procedural and technical arguments to defeat justice, here justice is often time justice for the accused and never for the victim. Contextual arguments as one mentioned by Magigi can't get anywhere at ICC. Most importantly he can overcome all this by pointing out in his opening arguments that... " PNU supporters" in this context and foregoing arguments denotes Kikuyu/Kissii/Meru... ethnic groups or tribe whereas "ODM supporters refers to Kalenjin/Luo/Luhya.... ethnic group or tribe...". 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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Has anybody seen Ndura waruinge (former mungiki leader)lately if I was Uhuru I will be sweating like a ^$%#$%$#$%. The ICC cases will mostly be based on witness account and some incriminating statements. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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masukuma wrote:do people know what the local tribunal was supposed to be? its not a court!!
another chink (look at this incompetence)...considering PNU was formed on 16 September 2007 and in 2006, akina Ruto were in ODM-KENYA then before they bought a party from Mugambi Imanyara and defected to it on 15 August 2007.
thus the statement As early as December 2006, WILLIAM SAMOEI RUTO ("RUTO") and HENRY KIPRONO KOSGEY ("KOSGEY"), prominent leaders of the Orange Democratic Movement ("ODM") political party, began preparing a criminal plan to attack those identified as supporters of the Party of National Unity ("PNU"). is contextually wrong.
since you cannot be a leader of a party you have not joined and plan attacks on members of a hitherto non-existent party.
it should read.....
As early as December 2006, WILLIAM SAMOEI RUTO ("RUTO") and HENRY KIPRONO KOSGEY ("KOSGEY"), prominent leaders of the Kalenjin tribe, began preparing a criminal plan to attack those identified as belonging to the Kikuyu and Kisii tribes IN RIFT VALLEY. is correct.
these fellows are incompetent coz they know nothing about Kenya...Nothing. You stole my words. Thanks a lot Mr Masuks! @Kusandikika I am inclined to agree. Ocampo is begginning to sound like he doesnt have much stuff between his two large ears. At the very preliminary stages the charge sheet is likely to be ruled as defective. Especially on the basis of what Masuks says above. The suspects will forever harp on that. A case of dead on arrival! Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 182 Location: Kenya
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selah wrote:Has anybody seen Ndura waruinge (former mungiki leader)lately if I was Uhuru I will be sweating like a ^$%#$%$#$%.
The ICC cases will mostly be based on witness account and some incriminating statements.
Waah. Makes sense.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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kelele nyingi muache...
are you a lawyer if not could you guys please go line up at your former primary schools, secondary schools and ask for just your English portion of the school fees...
are these arguments based on law or semantics and linguistics...
arent the two currently leaders of ODM, werent they leaders of ODM in 2007/08
KELELE KELELE
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 11/30/2009 Posts: 77 Location: Nairobi
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I would not dismiss the Application seeing as almost 60 of 80 pages are blacked out...
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