@ fundamentali,

We have some lawyers who have studied and specialized in construction laws and do interprete them for what they are in relationship to construction or construction disputes…I would not be worried if I engaged one for their services.

@ fantony,

It is not me who said that the project managers are not needed in any construction projects. I have so far not posted anything on project managers…please read the posts again.

Please note that questioning the role of a QS in a construction project does not amount to primitivity, but rather “thinking outside the box”.

You see fantony, as a construction client or developer it would be in my interest if I could reduce on professional fees while maintaining quality designs and construction works. It is therefore pretty in order for me to consider which professional contributions I would do without and still attain my desired goal without compromising on quality…

@ Pablo,

I think this is the scale on average,

Architect – 6%
Civil/structural Engineer - 3%
QS – 1.5%
Electrical/Mechanical Engineer – 1.5%

This makes 12% on fees alone, but does not include disbursements (project meetings and inspections) which may constitute another 10-15%... not economical for small scale projects!!!

@ Quantity Surveyors

What effect direct or indirect would the project have if there were no services of a QS?

What value does the QS add to the overall construction project management and functionalities throughout the project life?

@ FundamentAli- Not all claims are frivolous, there are some which are genuine which are caused by actions of either the client or his agents, (read: Architects, Engineers, PMs and rarely the QS) And this construction law specialist if they are worth their salt should be on board from the time the project commenced otherwise it will be hard for them to have any basis of their claims..and by the way, the various claims of course should be within the ambit of the contract document being used.

There are genuine contractors out there, the Chinese, Laxmanbhai, HYoung, Cementers just to name a few..

@ Kaigagio, read the 1st post by swaweru,am sure you shall see their value... in as much as you want to save on costs, rarely will you make any savings from not engaging a QS, unless its an SQ or a simple bungalow..for a commercial property or your dream home, costs for sure will escalate, without the QS on board...and yes, even if he is on board, the costs may still escalate depending on the architect and the client.

IMHO, dont try cut costs with the architects and engineers, since lives may be lost due to poor design and supervision. If you want you can omit the QS, at your own risk of course.

@Kaigagio. In the the ideal sittuation, construction costs are not supposed to increase, ie if you have a fixed price contract with the contractor, this covers all the above mentioned flactuations.Thus with the advice of a QS, you can control the flactuations!(though if you tender fixed price contract Vs a flactuating contract, the fixed price contract is normally higher to cover for unforseen and possible price increases, for the flactuating contract, the risk element of flactuations is borne by the client)i would advice one to have a fixed price contract..or if you are really frugal, have a labour only contract.

Without a QS the costs will increase. Where am i coming from ok

1. How do you estimate the entire cost of the project so as to have a baseline? I contend the notion that the originators of the design can come up with the cost estimate, since they dont have the necessary training on how to estimate costs. Who prepares the estimate? The Qs
2. How does one track the costs. Of course, the QS, the work of the Arch & Eng is purely design & specifications (& by the way in most jobs it is the QS who prepares the specs, for building works & not the Arch)
3. Variations, they are bound to arise, no job can be finished without a variation, who tracks and records them? the QS. Who measures their cost & time implication? thus advising whether it is necessary?
4. The claims from the contractor, be they frivolous or justifiable, who reviews them? the QS, since he has been on board from the word go and has the training on how to handle & measure such claims
5. In as much as you want to transfer the responsibilties to the originator, they will charge you for that extra responsibilty,and am imagine at a higher premium than the QS..
6. Who will measure the work done? the QS, again the designers are not trained to measure building works.
7. If you are frugal and you choose a labour only contract, who will measure the exact amount of material required? your fundi? architect? how many times have you painted your house and after the job is done, there are paint left overs? at times more than 5 tins?
8.Who will track the progress of work and advice you accordingly? the QS! Architects cant, they are trained to design, same for engs!
In an ideal sittuation, the costs will not increase, if there are proper controls by the client, who ensures this controls the QS!
9. How will you know if you are getting the best or rather lowest rates from the contractor? am sure you know an architect, just call one and ask him the average cost of class 20 reinforced concrete per cubic meter, better yet, the cost of a tonne of sand? a tin of paint? a kg of reinforcement steel..i can bet, they will tell you a figure which is wrong!call up a QS and ask him..

Actually, IMHO, the Architects shouldnt be paid the 6%! since they dont do any contract administration! they always rely on the QS for his support!

am sure am repeating this but, the Archs & Engs can be trained to do the QSs work, but ofcourse the fee which they charge you will of course be higher than the normal fee. so no saving whatsoever!

ask yourself why do corprates use QSs? even for a 1m job? the government? they have their own QS dept but they are so overwhelmed that they actually outsource QSs from private practice! if there was no value addition, i doubt corprates would hire a QS for their works..

@Kaigangio,

How much will the transaction fee charged by the lawyer? (Percentage wise). Secondly, have you ever tried to tell a lawyer to draft a simple contract even between professionals and client? If you can get past this, give him the job.

Most contract have standard forms e.g. insurance, bank, conveyancing etc. The same applies to roads and building works. Why pay for these when they are sold for almost nothing by the various industry players? How much does a quantity surveyor charge for drafting a contract? You could be paying for a service that is being offered for free

Keep using standard form contracts at your peril. Contrary to what you appear to suggest good lawyering is not simply a matter of filling in blanks.

@Mpenzi

I started by posing a simple challenge. Tell the lawyer to draft a contract first. We know that is their work. Can they do it? Try practically

if you want to construct a chicken hutch and call it a house it is ok..

you incredulous stupidity seems to indicate that the six years architects spend in college, four years for the QS is all a waste..

even if they were to spend the entire time high on drugs.. there must be something they pick up just by interaction and cramming for exams..

your line of thinking is why we have collapsing buildings and deathboxes of 8 levels at huruma and mathare north

infact it is straight out of the 9th century BC handbook for construction where there was one masterbuilder who was responsible for everything then spent his entire day on site to with the fundis

let us welcome you to construction industry..

the real one..

the one that will solve the housing problems for the middle class and low income groups.. it needs structure.. specialisation..

clear demarcation between ownership and management

clear demarcation between design and implementation/construction

once again for your chicken hutch you do not even need a designer... go ahead and issue a HB pencil to the fundi who will sketch it for you on the reverse of a cement sack.. buy your materials from your local hardware and invite the villagers for free labour..

in the meantime.. the professionals will be working on projects for people who appear to care about quality, the opportunity cost of funds invested in a project and hence the need to complete construction on schedule