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CFC STANBIC SPINOFF
trizher
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:11:42 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 95
Location: Tikrit - IRAQ
What is the effect on the share price?.........I understand it one for one........any suggestions on the forward price of CFC Bank and CFC Ins....
...We do it for the $$$$!!
Njung'e
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:15:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Trizher,
It's a no brainer.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
xxxxx
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:20:54 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 503
@Njunge, how much of a no brainer are we talking about?
Sober
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:40:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
Njung'e wrote:
@Trizher,
It's a no brainer.



you should be knowing something, Njunge. i have seen you pull of a stunt at our fantasy game.
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
trizher
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2010 3:07:58 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 95
Location: Tikrit - IRAQ
@ Njunge....
Got this kwa dictionary .....
no-brainer -
1. anything that requires little thought.
2. project, task, undertaking, labor - any piece of work that is undertaken or attempted; "he prepared for great undertakings"
3. colloquialism - a colloquial expression; characteristic of spoken or written communication that seeks to imitate informal speech
.....
Which is which as regards CFC stanbic holdings. BTW i am totally clueless why m still holding a huge chunk of the stock!!! Msicheke!!!!!!!
...We do it for the $$$$!!
Wiztec
#6 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 1:28:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/22/2008
Posts: 87
Hey how will the separation btw the insurance and bank business shares be done? must one be a share holder and if so how will it be done, am trying to find a way of perticipating but seems a re really clueless, kindly advise on how one can get into insurance shares during or before separation.
mwanahisa
#7 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 1:48:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Wiztec wrote:
Hey how will the separation btw the insurance and bank business shares be done? must one be a share holder and if so how will it be done, am trying to find a way of perticipating but seems a re really clueless, kindly advise on how one can get into insurance shares during or before separation.


If you want to be a shareholder in BOTH the banking and the insurance business, then the time to buy is now as you will then be entitled to a share of each. YOU HAVE TO BE A SHAREHOLDER BEFORE THE SEPARATION.

If on the other hand, you only want a share of the insurance business (or the banking/financial services), you will have to wait for them to be listed separately and then buy whichever you are partial to.
Wiztec
#8 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 2:05:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/22/2008
Posts: 87
@mwanahisa, Ahsante sana kwa ujumbe hiyo. i suppose they are still waiting for some authorization i guess from IRA, i can still spend money as i Waite for new info...
mwanahisa
#9 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 2:22:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Wiztec wrote:
@mwanahisa, Ahsante sana kwa ujumbe hiyo. i suppose they are still waiting for some authorization i guess from IRA, i can still spend money as i Waite for new info...


@Wiztec, You are welcome. BTW, you should not take this as a buy recommendation. In my view the fundamentals do not actually warrant paying a premium over other the pricing for other banks/insurance companies. I have not done precise calculations on its valuation but its EPS at the H1 point was only Kshs 2.48 with a forward PE of about 17 while growth (even for the bank only) was lagging its peers i.e. DTK, NIC, I&M and even CBA.

You can however make money speculating on the counter. The fact that they have a big pocket shareholder in the name of Standard Bank Group keeps it from going too low from its "normal" average. Also, the shareholding is fairly concentrated. So I buy it on a day like today (80 looks reasonable and I have seen a sale at 78). I can then wait for an opportune day to sell @88-90.
stocksmaster
#10 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 3:15:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/26/2006
Posts: 449
Location: CENTRAL PROVINCE
mwanahisa wrote:
Wiztec wrote:
@mwanahisa, Ahsante sana kwa ujumbe hiyo. i suppose they are still waiting for some authorization i guess from IRA, i can still spend money as i Waite for new info...


@Wiztec, You are welcome. BTW, you should not take this as a buy recommendation. In my view the fundamentals do not actually warrant paying a premium over other the pricing for other banks/insurance companies. I have not done precise calculations on its valuation but its EPS at the H1 point was only Kshs 2.48 with a forward PE of about 17 while growth (even for the bank only) was lagging its peers i.e. DTK, NIC, I&M and even CBA.

You can however make money speculating on the counter. The fact that they have a big pocket shareholder in the name of Standard Bank Group keeps it from going too low from its "normal" average. Also, the shareholding is fairly concentrated. So I buy it on a day like today (80 looks reasonable and I have seen a sale at 78). I can then wait for an opportune day to sell @88-90.


The CFC Insuarance holdings will be listed at an introductory price of Ksh 6.157 which is P/E of about 8 (based on half yr 2010 results). This looks abit ambitious since this division is the 'black sheep' of the CFC Stanbic Holdings (especially for last year where this division made a 700M loss).

The mother company seems to value its insuarance arm at Ksh 3.2B (projected market capitalisation after listing 515,270,364 shares at Ksh 6.157) despite an asset base of 23B.

The listing prospectus will shade more light on this insuarance wing of CFC but i would value its shares at not more than the P/E of Kenya Re (P/E of about 5).(This is a new entity coming from a loss making year which could be representing the toxic assets of CFC Stanbic.When the other banks are merging their operations to reduce overheads eg KCB with S&L,CFC is demerging to 'unlock value').

At a P/E of 5, this translates to a price of about Ksh 3.5-4.00.

With all 515M shares being given as a special dividend to CFC Stanbic Holdings shareholders at a ratio of 1:1, I anticipate a significant dumping of the shares that will push the insuarance shares towards the Ksh 4.50 to 5.50 range.

CFC Insuarance will make for an interesting speculative share due to its penny nature (and i suspect high liquidity) especially before the market can truely value it.

Happy hunting.
the deal
#11 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 3:23:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Well put/said @Stocksmaster...with you around we dont need the likes of Yasser to returns....LOL...
stocksmaster
#12 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 4:01:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/26/2006
Posts: 449
Location: CENTRAL PROVINCE
the deal wrote:
Well put/said @Stocksmaster...with you around we dont need the likes of Yasser to returns....LOL...


@ The Deal: Thanks.
As concerns YaserbigChair, you will be surprised by his depth of analysis and insight once he starts posting if he is as good as he was 2-3 years ago. I rarely give compliments but I can say he is Very Good with reliable info.

Happy hunting
tony stark
#13 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 4:26:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
@ stocksmaster what plans does CFC have to turn the insurance into a profit making entity ... apart from selling it off??
Would you buy it at a P/E of 5??

Happy hunting!
Wiztec
#14 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 4:30:38 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/22/2008
Posts: 87
@mwanahisa, stockmaster, really nice to read these analysis, very informative...@all question, assume you have 800k to make investment decision on either kplc and/or stanbic bank at a period of 6 months. what would be your entry/investment strategy specifically on those two stocks. the objective is to maximise on your investment
Njung'e
#15 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 4:40:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Stockmaster,
the deal was not around then....and they say,he who does not go out often,is convinced that his mama is the best cook...lol
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
the deal
#16 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 4:57:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Njung'e wrote:
@Stockmaster,
the deal was not around then....and they say,he who does not go out often,is convinced that his mama is the best cook...lol

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly well if Mzee Njung'e says you are good you must be really good anyway's Yasser the moment you drop your first post on your return to Wazua i will be off your back...LOL...
stocksmaster
#17 Posted : Monday, November 22, 2010 11:40:44 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/26/2006
Posts: 449
Location: CENTRAL PROVINCE
tony stark wrote:
@ stocksmaster what plans does CFC have to turn the insurance into a profit making entity ... apart from selling it off??
Would you buy it at a P/E of 5??

Happy hunting!

The listing reminds me of the Kenya Re IPO three and a quarter years ago. The listing was at a price of KSh 9.50. As at todays closing price, it has gained by only 20 per cent within that time.
Compairing Kenya RE with CFC insuarance:
Kenya RE:Trading at a P/e of 5 and a dividend yield of abt 2.3 per cent.EPS of 2.21
CFC Insuarance: Made a loss of Ksh 1.40 per share last year.Made some KSh 0.375 half yr this year. Last years loss means that the reserves need boosting hence dont expect any meaningful dividends this year.
If both traded at a P/E of 5, which would you buy (If at all you fancy insuarance stocks)?

Happy hunting.


.
alikujia
#18 Posted : Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:42:33 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/27/2010
Posts: 324
Location: nrb
stocksmaster wrote:
tony stark wrote:
@ stocksmaster what plans does CFC have to turn the insurance into a profit making entity ... apart from selling it off??
Would you buy it at a P/E of 5??

Happy hunting!

The listing reminds me of the Kenya Re IPO three and a quarter years ago. The listing was at a price of KSh 9.50. As at todays closing price, it has gained by only 20 per cent within that time.
Compairing Kenya RE with CFC insuarance:
Kenya RE:Trading at a P/e of 5 and a dividend yield of abt 2.3 per cent.EPS of 2.21
CFC Insuarance: Made a loss of Ksh 1.40 per share last year.Made some KSh 0.375 half yr this year. Last years loss means that the reserves need boosting hence dont expect any meaningful dividends this year.
If both traded at a P/E of 5, which would you buy (If at all you fancy insuarance stocks)?

Happy hunting.


.

Assuming one is on recovery path-cfc, while the other-Kre is on downward bec of structural issues, cfc can be a good play. But as youve said, it will be safer to see it come down fisrt before jumping in.

And this talk about getting the insurance free (which iam convinced is not the case) will be negative for the share price. But some may actually be ready to hold on to it because its "free".

By the way to those knowledgable in insurance accounts - the 23B assets is net?, or what?. and How would it compare with Kre against current price?
Aguytrying
#19 Posted : Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:20:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
I was also not around during big-chair's hey days, but if he's anything like our stocksmaster, bring it on. (three and a quarter years.....wacha tu)
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
trizher
#20 Posted : Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:16:43 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 95
Location: Tikrit - IRAQ
Naona kama ni kubaya pande hiyo ya CFC gotta bail out....bye CFC
...We do it for the $$$$!!
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