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DUAL CITIZENSHIP
caesar
#11 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:45:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 149
Kenyan's in the Diaspora's story is like that of Joseph in Egypt. People like possible President Elect Barack Obama will gain privedges and obligations of a Kenyan citizen. There should be no insecurity for Kenyan's in the homeland when approaching the diaspora.

I know of stories of many people in the UK & US who used to make $7/hr now make $25/hr. More and more Kenyans are entering and graduating from Top Universities and Nursing Schools landing good jobs increasing their earning power significantly. As is Kenya is not ready for these breed of citizens.

If just 200,000 Kenyans reside outside Kenya,just send back $1000/ year thats 13 Billion/ yr. That is an equivalence of 5 grand regencies by Kimunya's Valuation.
mukiha
#12 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:09:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
So? How does that relate to dual citizenship? One can still send the money even if not a citizen of Kenya,can't they?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
tony stark
#13 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:10:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
You keep trying to make it a small issue. Dual citizenship in israel is not the same as it is in kenya( our neighbour are not trying to wipe kenya out of the map israel needs all the numbers it can get)
We are 32 million as of the last cencus the 2006 KDHS suggest we are 38mill currently.
Why do we need more people?? Those kenyan you are talking about are success stories what about those lazy guys who just chew dole and other handouts from there goverment do you want those kenyans to become citizens here to?
What about the damn taxes??? If your are a kenyan citizen and you are earning money you have to pay tax where will this guys pay theres. INCOME TAX?? not stamp duty,not V.A.T.

Are there children going to school in public university as local students paying 20k per year? What about education will they get free primary and secondary school education as locals?

Are they going to pay park fee entrance during there holidays as locals?

How do you qualify for dual citizenship .... mother/ or father kenyan,or grandparents kenyans or there is someone upto 6 generations ahead was kenyan.

How will it affect the (hopefully) soon to be east african union. Do you think tanzanians want to compete with this new kenyans from the diaspora. We are bad enough for them as it is??
This issues are not even the tip of the iceberg.
My suggestion is more thought and more discussion,and not only in parliament,is required.

veni vedi vici
mukiha
#14 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:20:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@ tony stark - these days,war is not won on number of troupes but on number of bullet-equivalents you can fire per second.

the Israeli policy is a matter of nationalism,not military might.

By the way,when one gets dual citizenship,what nationality are they?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
caesar
#15 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:28:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 149
@Mukiha,earning and average $40,000. $1000 is peanuts. These people with pooled funds,Ideas,have enough money to build the next KICC or KRA buildings. Extend research wings of our universities,build mass rental houses,Create an yearly stable tourism and enhance world wide knowledge of Kenya,create liquidity,growth and stability in our capital markets.

Diaspora is not a small issue. Dual citizenship will create enthusiasm. It would be a new way of Kenya showing some love to all the hardworking Kenyans who have been doing the above.
mukiha
#16 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:35:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
If it is the Kenyans resident in Kenya who will gain from the 'enthusiasm,how come the calls for this dual citizenship are coming from those in the diaspora?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
caesar
#17 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 3:46:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 149
Mukiha,Some would have asked why Mathaai was planting trees in Karura and not on her garden?

It may not matter who is asking for it. It matters if it is a good thing for Kenya as a whole.
tony stark
#18 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 4:47:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
@ muhika
I dont think the american's will agree with you on the numbers.
@caesar
To cut a long story short how will i gain from dual citizenship. I have no relatives who send me remittance,and there money just goes to there relatives anyway. They raise the raise the property value beyond what my meagre salary can afford. I dont want to compete with them.
So why should my taxes be used on this individuals really?
IF you can answer this simple question then you will be 1/10000000000 through your task of trying to single handely covinving kenyans why they need dual citizenship.
Don't forget about the EAC how will the dual citizens be treated and other international treaties and agreements we have with other countries.

veni vedi vici
caesar
#19 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 5:09:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 149
@ Tony

Imagine if the 'little enthusiasm' raises remittances from $1000/yr to $1000/ Quarter. This would bring and annual $52Billion of new investments. They you would not have to pay a lot of taxes.
MoKenya
#20 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:15:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 25
@ Mukiha,Tony Stark & all those opposed to dual citizenship

Is every decision made in the national agenda meant to benefit you? I don't think so. When Kenya hosted people running away from countries in turmoil,you paid for it through taxation; did you directly gain? When government raises taxes,do you benefit directly? When questionable 'expatriates' are given work permits,how does this benefit you?

And just because you are not gaining,does not mean it is purposeless or that someone else should not!

Kenyans in diaspora need dual citizenship for several reasons; one being not to have to obtain and renew entry visas every so often when they are back in Kenya. Even though visa renewal is a revenue source,most people may bring in more productivity to the economy if they do not have to think that someone with ulterior motives can opt to deny them stay.

Most people left to improve their situations and I see nothing wrong with that.They still have strong links back home (including spouses and children) and strong desire to return back someday. I see nothing wrong with that either. Many have taken up their foreign country's residence or citizenship so as access services and be able to work. They pay tax where they work/earn income,i.e. to the host's taxation authority,and tax on their investments in Kenya to KRA. Some send remittances,others invest and some do both.

Increase in property values in Kenya is not a diaspora effect alone as some contend. People in Kenya have had access to cheaper loans + other liquidity sources,in the last couple years and have naturally turned to property investment for higher returns.

As Ceasar mentions,some Kenyan non-citizens may be more enthusiastic in investing if they had claim to their original country's citizenship. Not knowing how existing and future laws would affect them,many would rather hold back and only send remittances. Sending remittances is but just a small % of resources the diaspora members can put to work in the economy.

As someone mentioned,people pay taxes where they earn,so anyone who earns in Kenya will pay taxes in Kenya. Where this and other matters (voting,holding elective or political office,etc) conflict,they can be legislated. That is what parliament is for.

Besides,there are ways to go about things too,in absence of dual citizenship (so why deny it?)

One is for a family to have one member maintain Kenyan Citizenship and be the primary front in Kenya,while the other family member(s) maintain the foreign country's citizenship.

Another is simply to renounce Foreign country's citizenship when one return's home.

I for one have maintained my Kenyan citizenship,and my host country does not require me to be a citizen to access most services,so that is one way I go around this issue!

'Debt may go bad but it never rots.' Chinua Achebe
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