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KQ staff.... which AIRLINE would you rather work for!
Cicero
#21 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 1:51:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 111
VituVingiSana wrote:
FundamentAli wrote:
After the recent NAS fiasco, I do not think the management is taking any risk. The mob psychology has taken over reason in workers heads. My take is KQ management can decide to pay off the troublemakers and the incompetents keep them out of their business forever. Anyway, it will be interesting to watch what happens.
Not a good idea... Paying off the incompetents simply gives the 'good' workers a chance to strike later on!!! I would be pissed if the incompetent are rewarded both as a shareholder and/or employee!



What is the best way out for KQ? Obviously unceremonously throwing out unionizable workers however much the workers deserve the boot and however happy that makes us as shareholders might not end very well. What would you do if you were in Naikuni's shoes where you need to show some profit and some happy workers at the end of the year?

Someone suggested that most if not all KQ unionizable workers were son's and daughters of wealthy Kenyans so they dont give a hoot either way. Would hiring fellas from korogocho help the situation, how they look talk or behave not withstanding?
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it...
VituVingiSana
#22 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 2:05:55 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,137
Location: Nairobi
Every fellow/gal has a RIGHT to work for KQ [as long as they meet the minimum requirements & KQ has openings] whether from Kibera or Kileleshwa...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mwanahisa
#23 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 2:14:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
How about instituting some productivity related pay with performance bonuses based on the company's profitability? Or is this already in place?

VituVingiSana
#24 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 2:17:22 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,137
Location: Nairobi
mwanahisa wrote:
How about instituting some productivity related pay with performance bonuses based on the company's profitability? Or is this already in place?
That is what I agree with... Then all of us benefit... employees + shareholders + Treasury
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Wendz
#25 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 3:55:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Cicero wrote:

What is the best way out for KQ? Obviously unceremonously throwing out unionizable workers however much the workers deserve the boot and however happy that makes us as shareholders might not end very well. What would you do if you were in Naikuni's shoes where you need to show some profit and some happy workers at the end of the year?

Someone suggested that most if not all KQ unionizable workers were son's and daughters of wealthy Kenyans so they dont give a hoot either way. Would hiring fellas from korogocho help the situation, how they look talk or behave not withstanding?


Let me tell you what i would if i was in Nikuni's shoes.

1. I would put down the agendas and demands raised.

2. I would put down my realistic demands as the employer based on contributions to the profitability of the company.

3. I would go ahead and ask the recruiting firm to start a major recruitment as they have done

4. I would then call a meeting with the employees, the trade union and the management.

5. i would allow them to put their claims forward and i put mine and we negotiate on what to trade off on the demands

6. obviously, he trade union officials being who they are, they would turn it down. This will open a chance to put my final demands to the employees representatives giving them a choice of reapplying for their jobs with the recruiting agency at the terms and conditions dictated by the company - best of all, performance contracts of 2 years renewable..... Depending on the contract.

7. If the employees go by the trade unions, sack all of them and replace them with the new employees...... it will be a loss in the short run but in the long run, this should be a solved solution!

Infact, Naikuni is even in a much better position because the workers are not fully behind the trade union proposed demands so it is easy to get to talk to them and they buy his idea and they could probably talk to the trade union to reasonable negotiate for whatever the demands are without calling for a strike.

Are pilots also members of a trade union?
Pierce
#26 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 4:20:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,464
@ Wendz,

Yes Pilots have the Kenya Airlines Pilots Association - (KALPA).

KALPA is however not involved in the strike that starts about 30 hours from now.

KAPLA is arguably the strongest union in Kenya.

It would be literally impossible to replace flight deck crew like the way KQ hopes to do for cabin crew


For ALL intents and purposes therefore Pilots (KQ pilots) are truly untouchable!!

Njung'e
#27 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 4:35:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Pierce,
And the strike is on??....Naikuni left it too long.How do unionisable employees go without a CBA for four years
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
kyt
#28 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 4:42:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
VituVingiSana wrote:
Every fellow/gal has a RIGHT to work for KQ [as long as they meet the minimum requirements & KQ has openings] whether from Kibera or Kileleshwa...

as much as your statement is spot on, there are too many things to consider other than rights.
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
Pierce
#29 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 4:46:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,464
Njunge,

Yes it is.....as at now!

I guess some mistakes were made in the past, but it's too late to look back now!!
BGL
#30 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 4:48:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
VituVingiSana wrote:
Every fellow/gal has a RIGHT to work for KQ [as long as they meet the minimum requirements & KQ has openings] whether from Kibera or Kileleshwa...


If you receive ECONOMIC OUTPATIENT CARE from your rich parents then you care less whether the strike goes on and you get the sack. These are the sort of situations that negates the whole reason why people must work.It is this group of don't cares that unions manipulate to remain relevant...at least for KQ.
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
bird_man
#31 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 5:17:56 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
Sources from KQ tell me that it's only Flight Attendants keen with the strike since its related to some flying allowances & stuff.I think this is one strike that wont even take off.So you lose your job at KQ....where else would you go?
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
Pierce
#32 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 6:07:59 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,464
Strike suspended.

Management gets court injunction.
Njung'e
#33 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 6:17:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Is that enough...??...I really doubt.Titus should stop firefighting and face the real issues head on!
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Cicero
#34 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 6:29:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 111
Njung'e wrote:
Is that enough...??...I really doubt.Titus should stop firefighting and face the real issues head on!


Yes, i really think Titus should do something and not be like most of Kenya where we wait for something to get destroyed beyond repair (e.g. our roads).

But the point by point method above where he uses a small carrot and a huge stick would be the most beneficial to us shareholders. Two year contracts with perfomance-based bonuses would be really great as that would make it easy to weed out any trouble makers in the end of every term and at the same time reward hard working KQ staff!
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it...
VituVingiSana
#35 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 7:26:03 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,137
Location: Nairobi
Cicero wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
Is that enough...??...I really doubt.Titus should stop firefighting and face the real issues head on!


Yes, i really think Titus should do something and not be like most of Kenya where we wait for something to get destroyed beyond repair (e.g. our roads).

But the point by point method above where he uses a small carrot and a huge stick would be the most beneficial to us shareholders. Two year contracts with perfomance-based bonuses would be really great as that would make it easy to weed out any trouble makers in the end of every term and at the same time reward hard working KQ staff!
By getting a court injunction... those who strike do so illegally then KQ can fire them without legal repercussions...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Bottlenecks
#36 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 7:49:12 PM
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Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 6
Location: Middle East
What many pple dont know is that over 500 Kenyans are working for Emirates in Dubai and another almost 300 working for Qatar Airways,Majority of whom are Ex-KQ. Most of the regional airlines are also full of formerly KQ staff, standards will continue falling if they continue losing experienced staff to other airlines.
mwanahisa
#37 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 7:51:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
I am really looking forward to the strike, KQ In-flight Attendants and others so inclined - do please strike! This will present a great opportunity to right things once and for all. I would accept a loss in this year's financials if that's what it is going to take.
obiero
#38 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 7:56:16 PM
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Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,568
Location: nairobi
naikuni afute hii watu yote. Btw iv seen sm v ugly hostesses at kq. Such a shame. its time for the shake down. paka wasiitwe simba!

COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#39 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 8:05:58 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,137
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
naikuni afute hii watu yote. Btw iv seen sm v ugly hostesses at kq. Such a shame. its time for the shake down. paka wasiitwe simba!

LOLest Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly The funniest comment I have read... Ati, "Btw iv seen sm v ugly hostesses at kq. Such a shame. its time for the shake down."
They should hire Rwandans!


Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Eddy
#40 Posted : Monday, October 11, 2010 8:22:49 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/20/2006
Posts: 277
All this solutions sound very simple and easy to implement....... airline business is pretty complicated...Unions are very powerful and those suggesting contracts should realise this has to be negotiated with the said unions and by the way KQ did away with contracts 2 years ago when they realised it was counter productive - that is when the gulf airlines were getting kq staff like nobodys business.

Goodwill is absolutely necessary not only for external but also internal customers. Crew have to be licensed by some parastatal under government you do not just wake up one morning and employ people and expect them to perform on a 777 when they are trained on an ATR.

I also think it is bad practise to poach staff from other organisations and in an arrogant way as KQ wants to start doing and especially when this is not informed by goodwill but desperation. Negotiation still remain the key thing..... management has asked COTU to intervene as it has been in the picture throughout the negotiations but have we heard anything from Atwoli? there is more than meets the eye here.
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