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KENOL/KOBIL
VituVingiSana
#801 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:01:36 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
@mwanahisa is correct... Shell, BP (now part of Shell) & Caltex wanted to SHUT DOWN the Refinery! Which meant a complete write-off except as scrap... (well the Tanks & Land would have value)...

That Essar came in to buy their share of KPRL was a godsend!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#802 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:05:49 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
Sasha wrote:
@VVS:
Your understanding of locus standii is correct. However, if the same actions/inactions are meted out on another individual in the same manner, and this other individual does not find it necessary to take legal action against these actions, then you do not have locus standii. I wanted to use another analogy here but you may dismiss it as stupid so I leave it there!
I apologize. Please go ahead. The reason I was not comfy with your analogy was my understanding that unlike KK you have the RIGHT to get off the Ma3.

That said, you on the Ma3 are in the same position as KK... mafia-like behavior of the manamba (MoE)... means you can't get off even if it is in your best interest!

So ignoring my 'stupid analogy' comment... please elaborate...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#803 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:10:26 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
Sasha wrote:
@VVS:
Your understanding of locus standii is correct. However, if the same actions/inactions are meted out on another individual in the same manner, and this other individual does not find it necessary to take legal action against these actions, then you do not have locus standii.

No way! It is incumbent on YOU to enforce/prove your Right to the Action aka Locus Standi. Otherwise, no-one will have Locus Standi in any situation if s/he is the first to take legal action.

If I do not pay my creditors & none except one sues me, s/he does not LOSE the right (Locus Standi) to sue me just coz the others did not!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#804 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:12:13 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
I dont understand all all this cat & mouse games, i thought maybe the shanangans were dead & buried so i will never buy any Kenyan OMC shares...

You should stick with Namibian shares... d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
There is a saying... If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! Applause Applause Applause Applause
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#805 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:16:10 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
My gut tells me that nyoike did not tell us the whole truth... Or he mispoke... Or he was conned by his juniors... Or mutua being there rubbed off on nyoike...

KK is careful... The Press Release must have gone through their lawyers... KK mentioned what Nyoike said about getting access to KPRL but avoided the mention of money or settlement with KPRL...

KK did specify that they signed a new agreement with KPC but they still want the 4bn they were awarded...

Note, that the 'media' did not report on KK-KPC but on KK-KPRL...

I think there are different scripts here & I will accept KK's coz it is in writing!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Sasha
#806 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:25:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
@VVS: The analogy I wanted to use is suppose you have an office near Jevanjee Gardens and there is those loud and noisy preachers nearby. If you go to court alone without the backing of office people with offices in the vicinity, you would lose the case because you do not have locus standii. Your neighbours are also exposed to the same noise and have not taken any action, so you cannot prove that you would be 'harmed' more than them! In the same vein, the other OMCs are paying the new rates, are exposed to the same inefficiencies by KPRL but did not find it necessary to take legal action against them.

But on reading your last post, I'm inclined to revisit my practice notes. I'm beginning to question whether the issue of locus standii applies in civil matters!
VituVingiSana
#807 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:41:53 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
Sasha wrote:
@VVS: The analogy I wanted to use is suppose you have an office near Jevanjee Gardens and there is those loud and noisy preachers nearby. If you go to court alone without the backing of office people with offices in the vicinity, you would lose the case because you do not have locus standii. Your neighbours are also exposed to the same noise and have not taken any action, so you cannot prove that you would be 'harmed' more than them! In the same vein, the other OMCs are paying the new rates, are exposed to the same inefficiencies by KPRL but did not find it necessary to take legal action against them.

But on reading your last post, I'm inclined to revisit my practice notes. I'm beginning to question whether the issue of locus standii applies in civil matters!

It does. This is a common item in insurance matters. Generally, you can't insure a 3rd party. So if I am not related to you, not an employer, not a dependent, not a vendor/client... I can't insure you... Rather I can't 'gain/earn' a payout from insuring you...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mwanahisa
#808 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 2:22:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Another chance to BUY Kenol is on the horrizon. Bids are at 9.95 and they are quite few. Opportunity calls.
alikujia
#809 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 3:38:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/27/2010
Posts: 324
Location: nrb
Sasha wrote:
@VVS: The analogy I wanted to use is suppose you have an office near Jevanjee Gardens and there is those loud and noisy preachers nearby. If you go to court alone without the backing of office people with offices in the vicinity, you would lose the case because you do not have locus standii. Your neighbours are also exposed to the same noise and have not taken any action, so you cannot prove that you would be 'harmed' more than them! In the same vein, the other OMCs are paying the new rates, are exposed to the same inefficiencies by KPRL but did not find it necessary to take legal action against them.

But on reading your last post, I'm inclined to revisit my practice notes. I'm beginning to question whether the issue of locus standii applies in civil matters!


Is "locus standi" so punitive?
youcan'tstopusnow
#810 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:50:28 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Small oil firms eat into market share of majors www.businessdailyafrica....0/-/jk94k9z/-/index.html
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
VituVingiSana
#811 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:00:44 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
Muite (if he was the lead lawyer for KK) should not be revealing his client's business in the open!

http://www.nation.co.ke/...0/-/wsntmd/-/index.html

BTW, as I have said before... KK has NOT settled with KPRL...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Much Know
#812 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:39:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,558
@vvs, read the article, i think its becoming more political, muuite is just politics
Meru Holiness
VituVingiSana
#813 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:44:49 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
Much Know wrote:
@vvs, read the article, i think its becoming more political, muuite is just politics
I dont like politics... I prefer KK goes through the court process...

I believe KK has a good chance to win at Arbitration [I wish I has a copy of the Processing Agreement] or they would not pursue that route...

BTW, the 4bn award against KPC is still in play! If KK 'wins' that [currently under appeal] it will be awesome!

I do fear that the judge/s hearing the appeal might be 'influenced' by the Executive coz of the 'vetting'...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Much Know
#814 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:01:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,558
True. but if muite is to be believed, then KK lawyers prefer the political route, why?, what then?
Meru Holiness
VituVingiSana
#815 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:08:52 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
Much Know wrote:
True. but if muite is to be believed, then KK lawyers prefer the political route, why?, what then?
"IF MUITE IS TO BE BELIEVED"

Anyway, if KK is taking the political route then I am sorely disappointed! The Kenyan court system is also more than a little slow!

IMHO, MoE over-reached its mandate. ERC (almost) defied a Court Order. That would have been interesting coz it would pit the State vs the State. Asking the police to arrest the ERC commissioners would have been great to watch!

"Although Mr Muite declined to give finer details of the negotiations citing confidentiality, he believes KenolKobil had a strong legal suit filed in London against KPRL and the refinery would have paid “a lot of money.” [Even without Muite's opinion... I have been of the opinion that KK had a strong case vs KPRL which declined to go into Arbitration until it was served]
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
BGL
#816 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:34:34 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
I ain't a lawyer and i won't claim to give an opinion but i 'think' that at some point KK will have to choose whether to do business of oil marketing or court battles. There options are thinning by the day and fatigue is setting in if MUITE is to be beleived. For those of you WHO STILL THINK THEY WILL STRIKE IT RICH when KK attaches KPC i advice you keep dreaming. The huge award of Ksh 4.6bn by arbiter Ahmednasir Abdullahi is being appealed following the judgement delivered by Lady Justice Hannah Okwengu. The application by KK to have the application (appeal by KPC against arbitration) dismissed was found incompetent. It was accordingly dismissed with costs,” Lady Justice Hannah Okwengu, said about KenolKobil’s
application in her 19-page ruling on April 20 this year.

++++brief history of the dispute+++

On December 10, 2009, arbitrator Ahmednasir Abdullahi, ordered KPC to pay KenolKobil Sh4.6bn for contravening a transportation and storage agreement. Mr Abdullahi explained that the award was damages for loss of consumer goodwill, cost of public relations, marketing campaign and loss of financial goodwill. KenoKobil had factored the award in its 2010 revenues, which it hoped would boost its balance sheet if awarded in its favour. Mr Abdullahi, a former Law Society of Kenya (LSK) chairman, ruled that the State corporation breached the transportation and storage agreement by allowing the collapsed Triton Petroleum to use its facility, Kipevu, in Mombasa, as a warehouse.

++++ While the engagement between KPC & Triton was wrong, Arbiters may make decisions which may be polarized++++ I also wonder why all these disputes arise from KK decision to pay others +++ How is it like to work for KK?
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
VituVingiSana
#817 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:39:17 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
BGL wrote:

KenoKobil had factored the award in its 2010 revenues, which it hoped would boost its balance sheet if awarded in its favour.

@BGL - Please stop lying to us. Liar Shame on you

I am sure KK did NOT factor in the award in its P&L ('revenues') nor its Balance Sheet as of June 2010. If you prove me wrong, I will eat humble pie. If you cannot prove me wrong, I would advise you to tell your corrupt friends at MoE, KPC, KPA, KPRL to get ready for their arses to be handed to them!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#818 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:45:10 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
BGL wrote:
The huge award of Ksh 4.6bn by arbiter Ahmednasir Abdullahi is being appealed following the judgement delivered by Lady Justice Hannah Okwengu. The application by KK to have the application (appeal by KPC against arbitration) dismissed was found incompetent. It is accordingly dismissed with costs,” Lady Justice Hannah Okwengu, said about KenolKobil’s application in her 19-page ruling on April 20 this year.

1) KK did the right thing to try to have the application of the appeal dismissed. Makes sense for KK. Maybe it had a small chance to succeed but he who does not try does not win!

2) The appeal is in court. Until the appeal is heard is determined against KK, the current ruling stays in force. I hope the appeal is heard asap. Pray Pray Pray

3) KPC may be required to come up with a deposit or bond or guarantee of KES 4.6bn + interest for the appeal to be heard. Only GoK (or a huge bank like KCB or BBK or Equity) can help them a this point! d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

4) If KPC loses the appeal Pray Pray Pray & do not pay KK, then KK can apply to the Court to attach assets! Drool Drool Drool Yes, I am drooling!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
alikujia
#819 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:59:48 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/27/2010
Posts: 324
Location: nrb
both sides look very wary and are likely compromising to the extent that no one likely to lose much. in my view even if kk pays the 600m, a compromise will result in some reimbursement in some other form. So the only loss i see in kk is the effcet the tussle has had sicce running out of normal supply in the last few weeks.
BGL
#820 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:17:53 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
VituVingiSana wrote:
BGL wrote:

KenoKobil had factored the award in its 2010 revenues, which it hoped would boost its balance sheet if awarded in its favour.

@BGL - Please stop lying to us. Liar Shame on you

I am sure KK did NOT factor in the award in its P&L ('revenues') nor its Balance Sheet as of June 2010. If you prove me wrong, I will eat humble pie. If you cannot prove me wrong, I would advise you to tell your corrupt friends at MoE, KPC, KPA, KPRL to get ready for their arses to be handed to them!



OOOH MR VITU VINGI SANA...i post substance not rhetoric or hot air.... you do not need to eat humble pie. I will buy you lunch Lunch at the Serena (remember Anyan'g Nyong'o) after reading this statement dated...till the end. Mind you it is from a journalist but from Segman himself. Make no mistake, the appeal came to soon though his intentions are very clear and especially from the last sentence. Allons-y

27 Jan 2010

Notice to Shareholders: 2nd Half 2009 Earnings Update and Final KPC Arbitration Ruling

We publish our financial results twice in every Financial year. For the 2009 Financial year, in August 27th 2009, we published our half year results which showed that we had not achieved our targets as at that time and cautioned that if the trend continued the company was headed for a substantial reduction in its profits. Accordingly, we issued a profit warning as required by regulation.

However, we also added that Management was more bullish on 2nd half of the year and that management was strongly optimistic about the future of the Group’s profitability.

We are pleased to inform the Shareholders that out optimism has been proved right. We expect the underlying financial results for the year 2009 to be strong and surpass our earlier expectations due to a number of reasons, among them, a very strong 2nd half performance across the Group particularly in Kenya operation, strong performance of subsidiaries outside Kenya throughout the year, considerable improvement in cost of Financing of the Group trading activities, improvement and recovery in most of the business segments particularly in 3rd and 4th quarter 2009, gain from disposal of non-performing and non-core assets, reduction in provision for bad debts of commercial customer and in distribution costs.

Furthermore, management wishes to confirm that on 10th of December 2009 a Final Award in the matter between Kenya Pipeline Company Limited and KenolKobil Limited (formerly Kenya Oil Company / Kobil Petroleum Limited) was made.

In previous financial statements, management has on several occasions reported to the shareholders that the inefficient management of the pipeline has been a major constraint to the company’s performance. Following the award in Arbitral proceedings between the company and KPC, management is optimistic that in compliance with the Award, there will be an improvement in the services offered by KPC and this should be a major boost in improved performance and earnings of the company. There is also a financial aspect to this Award which is being challenged. If the Award is upheld, it will contribute significantly to the future earnings of the company.

Yours sincerely

Jacob I. Segman

Acting Chairman and Group Managing Director
------------------------------------------
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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