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KENOL/KOBIL
mjuaji wa stocks
#791 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:55:40 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 672
Location: nairobi
@Sasha.....i could not have said better than VVS!!
God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!

Sasha
#792 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:04:41 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
@VVS: Stupid analogy it may be but it captures the situation. Please indulge me without getting emotional.

The Karengata case was won not because of poor service, but because of lack of service. They had locus standii to sue CCN because they showed that the residents of Karengata would suffer without the services by CCN. KK do not have locus standii because the other OMCs have not taken any action against KPRL. They would have to prove that they would suffer more than the other OMCs would because of the inefficiencies. A complaint from the other OMCs does not constitute action against KPRL.

KK are justified in sueing KPRL for loss of business, but their greatest chance of success is if the other OMCs become enjoined in the case.

True! KK can tell the KPRL to piss off! But then what? KK will not be allowed to process any products in the country! How will that benefit you and me, the shareholders of the company? The losses they will incur from loss of business will by far surpass any gains from the court case.

Ofcourse all this is inconsequential if as is being reported in the media, KK agreed to pay all the outstanding dues!
QD
#793 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:23:10 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2009
Posts: 597
I think its high time kenyan's stand for their rights, is we all go by the bandwagon of others are doing it we wont move an inch. an attendant at NOCK commented only after pple made noise they reduced the pump price to kshs 93 en they do have enough stock even to match Wanyoike's Kshs 90.

Hence @sasha your argument do not hold.
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence
VituVingiSana
#794 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:27:26 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,371
Location: Nairobi
@sasha - You are splitting hairs!
KarenGata residents did get some service just very poor service. If all it took was 'poor service' instead of 'no service' to win the case, CCN would have sent one jamaa to Karen-Langata to cut the grass! Or fill one pothole! Or replace a bulb on one streetlight!

My understanding of Locus Standi is what 'right' you have to sue due to potential of being 'hurt' by the other(s) action/inaction. Therefore, someone else (Total, Shell, etc) not exercising their 'right' does not negate one's (KK) Locus Standi. Why should I be bound by what other lazy bastards don't want to do?

Using your argument, the FIRST plaintiff (or the first to sue) has no Locus Standi coz no-one else has sued! To me it makes no sense! Someone has to take the first step. As for the other firms (Total & Shell) I was letting you know that they (officially) complained except they did not go to Court.

Yes, I agree that others joining in will boost KK's chances of winning but Shell wants out so does not want to 'rock the boat' since it plans to disinvest. Total was 'forced' into kissing MoE's arse coz of the power it has to scuttle the Chevron takeover. In any event, if KK wins vs KPRL... expect a barrage of lawsuits vs KPRL.

KK is forced by law/regs to process at KPRL. I was illustrating that if KK was a passenger on the recklessly driven matatu, it would have wanted to get off.

Actually, there is NOTHING in writing I have seen from nyoike whereas KK's written statement does NOT mention any amount to be paid to KPRL... Read it again!

Erm, you rely on what is reported in the Media? They don't seem to know half of what is going on!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#795 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:36:08 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,371
Location: Nairobi
Seriously, the idiots at MoE are either stupid (hence calling them idiots) or pure corruption/scams are afoot!

http://www.businessdaily.../-/i7f2juz/-/index.html

Forcing firms to import products that are for TRANSIT through the OTS... This will open the door to shady operators...

Gulf Energy imported AGO (diesel) under OTS. Since the speculative bet went upside down, Gulf Energy got MoE to allow a $2mn surcharge on the cargo. Unfair to the rest of the OMCs/Importers...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mwanahisa
#796 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:45:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Another reason why the other majors have not been too overt in their challenges to KPRL is that they were previously part of the ownership. You will recall that Shell, BP and Caltex owned 50% of KPRL before they sold their interest to Essar.

By purchasing Caltex's operations in Kenya, Total inherited the goodwill (badwill in this case) that Caltex had with Essar. Both Total and Shell cannot be seen to be shouting too loudly over an asset they previously owned and did not improve (READ decided it was not worth running)!
Wendz
#797 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:45:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
[quote=Sasha]First of all, I am a shareholder of KK and I want as much as the next person for KK to win all these battles! But I feel that they are fighting a losing battle on all fronts.

1. There is no doubt of the inefficiencies at KPRL and KPC, and KK may have lost business as a result of this. Why then have the other OMCs not been enjoined in the case? Is it only KK that has lost business because of these inefficiencies? Issues of locus standii emerge here! What i know from an employee of "another" OMC is that they've got their papers ready to dump on KPRL's table if KK wins... that is why, the MoE will make sure KK does not win under any circumstances because it will just close shop..... Other OMCs have been cheering KK on from the backstage. As i said earlier, this strategy has a sacrificial lamb if the case is lost coz KK pays legal fees and arrears and alot of beneficiaries if it wins....


Sasha
#798 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:45:52 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
@VVS: From the plaint and affidavits, KA say that they did not get any service at all. But this is a nullity in the context of our discussion.

Your understanding of locus standii is correct. However, if the same actions/inactions are meted out on another individual in the same manner, and this other individual does not find it necessary to take legal action against these actions, then you do not have locus standii. I wanted to use another analogy here but you may dismiss it as stupid so I leave it there!

I find it curious that both parties are not being forthcoming with the terms of the settlement to the dispute! It may be an uneasy truce, but my concern is that my company has exposed itself to further losses!

I like to believe that the media reports carry some truths in them. But I don't rely entirely on them! I believe I heard Nyoike say that all outstanding dues would be paid at his press conference!

@Wendz: I also have the same info and I think the other OMCs are playing safe here. They have skeletons they do not want outed at this stage! If I were them, I would watch on the sidelines, and wait to pounce once the case was concluded.
mwanahisa
#799 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:50:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
And while we are it, this also means that the folks at Shell and Caltex were business partners with GoK, served on the same board at KPRL and hence had built up a buddy buddy r/ship with Nyoike et al. They just can't wake up and start throwing stones at their erstwhile partners (in crime no?!).
the deal
#800 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:58:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
I dont understand all all this cat & mouse games, i thought maybe the shanangans were dead & buried so i will never buy any Kenyan OMC shares...
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