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KENOL/KOBIL
BGL
#561 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 7:12:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
....what if they losePray Pray
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
VituVingiSana
#562 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 7:39:47 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
BGL wrote:
....what if they losePray Pray

They will lose a few battles... I believe they will win the war...

If they lose the war... I will be one distressed shareholder... d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! Sad Sad Sad Sad
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Horton
#563 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 8:55:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
it doesnt look pretty for KK, Im jes glad i sold 90% of my holdings at 10.5 at cool 100%+ profit... too many battles, too many arguments......and im even contemplating selling my "kidogo" shareholding.. getting fed up of all this fiasco......not much "assured" upside(relatively as compared to when I bought at 46)

Next Value buy for me is JUB
sheep
#564 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 9:26:53 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 781
Conservative investors sleep well...
The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
VituVingiSana
#565 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 9:53:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
@Horton - Lucky move... but I will stay put... why? Coz when there is blood in the streets you BUY... especially if it is your blood... LOL...

@sheep - I do not really care [I will buy more as I can] coz I am confident they will break out to 13/- within 12 months!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
tkzee
#566 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 10:48:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/13/2010
Posts: 160
Location: rift Valley-Naks
Who got KK's story on citizen?
''i can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies,but not the madness of people''-Isaac Newton
Gordon Gekko
#567 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 11:30:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
I got the story. ERC has been stopped from cancelling KK's processing licence. KK have 7 days to file its reasons as to why the license shouldn't be cancelled.
The same clip showed Nyoike, he was literally ranting like a lunatic when saying that if KK were shut down the market would immediately fill the void and there would be no impact on prices and supply.
tkzee
#568 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 11:54:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/13/2010
Posts: 160
Location: rift Valley-Naks
Gordon Gekko wrote:
I got the story. ERC has been stopped from cancelling KK's processing licence. KK have 7 days to file its reasons as to why the license shouldn't be cancelled.
The same clip showed Nyoike, he was literally ranting like a lunatic when saying that if KK were shut down the market would immediately fill the void and there would be no impact on prices and supply.

@GG thanks,hope this stalement ends its becoming too much.
''i can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies,but not the madness of people''-Isaac Newton
VituVingiSana
#569 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2010 8:13:31 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
nyoike seems to be in someone's pocket or is being used because he is supporting Gulf Energy just as he did Triton...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mjuaji wa stocks
#570 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:57:11 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 672
Location: nairobi
@all....waaa...what suprises me is the reaction / comments by some investors in this forum!!

I from this comments conclude that most people here are either speculators or otherwise...

When it comes to kk .... i agree 100% with vitu vingi sana....kk will be fine.

The reason as to why this is happening is just because nyoike and other corrupt goons at ERC and MoE are bend to break the law and offer themselves .....you know what.

who was there when triton took away 8billion worth oil....nyoike; kiraitu et al....have the monkeys changed?...no.

kk as i said in another thread should stick to its guns and if possible shoot this guys in their feet...

The good thing this time round is that kk has the law in their favour....if the law is to be follwed kk will get the damages paid!!

If not....i see not fear...kk will pay the money being demanded and we go on....this cant bankrupt us as shareholders....lakini hii possibility ( for kk to pay them) is impossible!!!

I keep buying more of kk....because i believe in the management ...i understand their business and .... their fundamentals are ok.....

LOOK AT WHAT WARREN BUFFET DID WITH GOLDMAN SACHS...later on Goldman had issues....lakini sasa goldman iko aje.....then if you are an investor....speak like one!!!
God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!

BGL
#571 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:30:41 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
tkzee wrote:
Who got KK's story on citizen?

http://www.youtube.com/u...zentv#p/u/8/m1QdWxgtrSk
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
BGL
#572 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2010 11:05:14 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Horton - Lucky move... but I will stay put... why? Coz when there is blood in the streets you BUY... especially if it is your blood... LOL...

@sheep - I do not really care [I will buy more as I can] coz I am confident they will break out to 13/- within 12 months!

Psychologists also remind us that investors are far more distressed by losses than they are delighted by gains. A very good case study.... with all due respect, just do an analysis of frequencies at which our very own @qw shouts buy or sell. The shouts of sell! sell! are either non-existent or punctuated with a rather dull tones. Si Ukweli huo.

History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
Horton
#573 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:03:21 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
mjuaji wa stocks wrote:
@all....waaa...what suprises me is the reaction / comments by some investors in this forum!!

I from this comments conclude that most people here are either speculators or otherwise...

When it comes to kk .... i agree 100% with vitu vingi sana....kk will be fine.

The reason as to why this is happening is just because nyoike and other corrupt goons at ERC and MoE are bend to break the law and offer themselves .....you know what.

who was there when triton took away 8billion worth oil....nyoike; kiraitu et al....have the monkeys changed?...no.

kk as i said in another thread should stick to its guns and if possible shoot this guys in their feet...

The good thing this time round is that kk has the law in their favour....if the law is to be follwed kk will get the damages paid!!

If not....i see not fear...kk will pay the money being demanded and we go on....this cant bankrupt us as shareholders....lakini hii possibility ( for kk to pay them) is impossible!!!

I keep buying more of kk....because i believe in the management ...i understand their business and .... their fundamentals are ok.

LOOK AT WHAT WARREN BUFFET DID WITH GOLDMAN SACHS...later on Goldman had issues....lakini sasa goldman iko aje.....then if you are an investor....speak like one!!!



Boss, with all due respect, perhaps u don't understand the word "margin of safety" I remember once when it was jes myself and Gordon gekko who were shouting ourselves hoarse about kk being a good buy at 46, most of you guys came in after the waves were getting to their peak. I think it's either correctly valued at the moment or a tad bit overvalued(again, the jury is still out on the word "valuation"). I bailed out simply because:(again according to me)
A. It's correctly/slightly overvalued at 10ish
B. Too much drama, I do know that they are right in this matter, but they should be concentrating on business. If I were kk management, I would first secure operations then fight it in court....this maintains continuity of business. Right now, I'm sure they have lost more that the 472m or whatever in lost business, demurrage, legal fees, lost man hours Etc.
C. I prefer businesses like Carbacid, high margins, monopolistic, non-utility types and that is not because of any govt favors, their position is coz of their moat, resources, contracts etc Linde group BOC, has found this a tough nut to crack, again, if u went to BOCs agm, u would realize that they were avoiding the CO2 question.Which continues on my next point,
D. Due their poor margins again due to high competition. They barely manage 2% on averege, at 46bob, margin of safety to cover(counter for me, the investor) these low margins. Again compare to Carbacid which has net margins of over 40%, that means shareholders get to "keep" over 40% of the turnover. Btw KK has the highest turnover in Kenya at close to $2B. But sadly, most of it is not retained coz of the industry. Again to quote Buffet(since I figure u like him)
"when a management known for it's brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it's usually the reputation of the business that remains intact.

Disclaimer: these are only my views, I ain't saying ur wrong, I'm jes saying....
cnn
#574 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:10:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 1,622
I am buying this company for the rest of the year,the longer it remains suppressed the better.It is cheap and business prospects in countries beyond ERC's jurisdiction i believe will still be good.What is the worst that can happen to KK? Pay 600m if they lose, and if they win any of their claims?
youcan'tstopusnow
#575 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2010 7:19:58 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Speaking of B.O.C, its half year profits after tax down 32 percent. www.allafrica.com/stories/201009030983.html
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
guru267
#576 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:15:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
Speaking of B.O.C, its half year profits after tax down 32 percent. www.allafrica.com/stories/201009030983.html

B.O.C is one of those companies I've never quite understood and hence will never touch
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#577 Posted : Sunday, September 05, 2010 12:39:48 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
Horton wrote:

A. It's correctly/slightly overvalued at 10ish
I disagree. I think 13/- is a strong possibility in 12 months. Don't forget the subsidiaries
B. Too much drama, I do know that they are right in this matter, but they should be concentrating on business. If I were kk management, I would first secure operations then fight it in court....this maintains continuity of business. Right now, I'm sure they have lost more that the 472m or whatever in lost business, demurrage, legal fees, lost man hours Etc.
Maybe but if you do not stand up for your RIGHTS, you will be stepped on. As Kenyans, we allowed moi & kenyatta to f**k us. What did we get? Even more f**k**g. You have to fight it out for your rights
C. I prefer businesses like Carbacid, high margins, monopolistic, non-utility types and that is not because of any govt favors, their position is coz of their moat, resources, contracts etc Linde group BOC, has found this a tough nut to crack, again, if u went to BOCs agm, u would realize that they were avoiding the CO2 question.Which continues on my next point,
Well, if Kenyans would stop bitching about high petrol prices! BTW, did you know that the GoK taxes account for 40% of the retail price? Another 10% from 'losses' due to inefficient KPA, KPC & KPRL?
D. Due their poor margins again due to high competition. They barely manage 2% on averege, at 46bob, margin of safety to cover(counter for me, the investor) these low margins. Again compare to Carbacid which has net margins of over 40%, that means shareholders get to "keep" over 40% of the turnover. Btw KK has the highest turnover in Kenya at close to $2B. But sadly, most of it is not retained coz of the industry.
Well, Carbacid was ready to sell out to BOC except the Transaction Advisors gave them bad advice. Also CMA was an ass... even the Tribunal agreed. I think BOC should have fought it out... just to sock it to the CMA. BOC should have sued the CMA as well... Heck, for all I care, BOC should have de-listed!

Again to quote Buffet(since I figure u like him)
"when a management known for it's brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it's usually the reputation of the business that remains intact.
True but dude... this is the Oil Business... Even with all the shyte in the Gulf of Mexico... BP will remain in the industry...

Also it is CORRUPTION that you seem to glossing over that is the problem not KK... I am sure Carbacid paid some 'protection' money in form of shares or otherwise to moi & cronies...



Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#578 Posted : Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:08:26 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,261
Location: Nairobi
http://www.erc.go.ke/erc/about_erc/?ContentID=10

So nyoike is an ERC director as well as director of KPRL & KPC... How can he be objective?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#579 Posted : Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:51:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
He represents the govt, just like ps treasury sits on boards of govt firms. I agree with @horton on this one. I also shouted buy at 48 and some chaps came up with analysis of crude oil prices showing why KK wasn't a good buy. In the circumstances the chances of loss are very real at 10's range. If you are ready to wait you might get in at a better price
Life is short. Live passionately.
BGL
#580 Posted : Monday, September 06, 2010 3:22:15 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
I don't like this game...because at the end of the day i may end up paying more to fuel my car.

It reminds me of this Warner bros pictures film called 'CLASH OF THE TITANS'. Since i ain't a fence sitter and KK has enough battalion @wazua, I am rooting for ERC to stand its ground and ensure that all animals are equal and KenolKobil is not more equal than the others. It will be interesting as *kampf der TITANIEN* strolls into the corridors of justice & at the gas stations. I think this will be one serious battle which will not only bruise egos but at the end may redefine the petroleum landscape in Kenya.

*wanyonge pia wana haki zao*

History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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